Gay Marriages

[Darorinag]

OK, I haven't read the entire thread because it's too long, but what's your point, Deviance? Are you saying that homosexuality is immoral? And that as a result gay marriage shouldn't be legal? It would help if you could put your assertions in point form as a summary for those of us who came into the thread too late to begin a discusssion.

Bisexuals as well are confused people who can also copulate with the rest of the bunch. Let us not forget that overall, homosexuality isn't just a political and moral issue anymore; it is also about genetically altered people who are badly hurting psychologically and can go one way but they chose the other route due to the mental defect.

Oh please... get a life... is reflecting your own psychological problems on others and your need to feel special due to mental defect too?

[Crimson Glow]

Now, since homosexual couples are by nature unable to reproduce, they do not NEED this legal protection or the benefits of marriage to provide a safe place for the production and raising of children. Apart from the sexual aspect of a gay relationship, what they have is really "best friend" or concubine status, and that does not require legal protection either.

Then I ask again, what of married couples who have no intention of ever having children, who DESPISE children? Whether they choose to or not is irrelevant. I'm asking my question based on your assertion that "there is no reason for marriage other than raising a family", not based on whether they have a choice in the matter or not. We already know they have a choice. But why should having a choice in the matter make them exempt from your stance?

The only true, concrete way I can see saying gay marriage is immoral is due to strict, orthodox religious beliefs. That, I can give you. But not everyone agrees with, nor should they be bound by those beliefs. No one has the right to say "you may not have such and such privilege due to MY beliefs." As long as it doesn't interfere with how YOU want to live on a day to day basis, no one should be concerned with how someone ELSE wants to live on a day to day basis.

And to be quite honest, I don't understand the fascination with this subject. I mean, there are LOTS of "wrongs" in going on in this world right now. LOTS!! And many of those "wrongs" are FAR worse, and impact us FAR more greatly then this subject. Yet, I’ve never seen any subject (in general, not just on this forum) generate such hostility as this subject does. Everyone has opinions and stances on everything in life, but non cause nearly as severe an outburst in aggressive enmity. I know people that oppose it think it’s “gross” and what not, but….why SO much hate? If I didn’t know any better, I’d think they were Turks of the Ottoman Empire era discussing their revulsion towards Armenians.

[Deviance]

Actually, you're wrong. There are women who do have their monthly cycle yet cannot reproduce.

That is because they are in the midst of developing. Perhaps you should stick to issues involving something more at your speech. Like that one section of the forum where they have the Bart Simpson shooting game.

[Deviance]

Then I ask again, what of married couples who have no intention of ever having children, who DESPISE children? Whether they choose to or not is irrelevant. I'm asking my question based on your assertion that "there is no reason for marriage other than raising a family", not based on whether they have a choice in the matter or not. We already know they have a choice. But why should having a choice in the matter make them exempt from your stance?

The only true, concrete way I can see saying gay marriage is immoral is due to strict, orthodox religious beliefs. That, I can give you. But not everyone agrees with, nor should they be bound by those beliefs. No one has the right to say "you may not have such and such privilege due to MY beliefs." As long as it doesn't interfere with how YOU want to live on a day to day basis, no one should be concerned with how someone ELSE wants to live on a day to day basis.

And to be quite honest, I don't understand the fascination with this subject. I mean, there are LOTS of "wrongs" in going on in this world right now. LOTS!! And many of those "wrongs" are FAR worse, and impact us FAR more greatly then this subject. Yet, I’ve never seen any subject (in general, not just on this forum) generate such hostility as this subject does. Everyone has opinions and stances on everything in life, but non cause nearly as severe an outburst in aggressive enmity. I know people that oppose it think it’s “gross” and what not, but….why SO much hate? If I didn’t know any better, I’d think they were Turks of the Ottoman Empire era discussing their revulsion towards Armenians.

And I tell you again, that is a matter of choice, not inability or some genetically altering biological flaw within the chromosomes. They CAN but they choose not to have it. That is a different thing that is simply decision based. Their FLAW and inability THWARTS them from doing as such (unless it is artificially). You are going in circles trying to find some loop hole that is why you are constantly at a loss of words and or a stance on things and to twist my words around towards your negative agenda of "hating" someone, well that just debunks your status and makes you appear doltish because no one said that they will "hate" anyone for being however they choose to be. You cannot automatically ASSume that just because I forbid it, it automatically means I "hate" them. It seems like you need to keep your plans to yourself because to say what you just said means to be inaccurate and your fallacy just helped you with that.

As much as it tickles your fancy, you really need not to ANALyze my words with ASSumptions in such an untrue way that it underlines a purpose for something it is not such as: "hate," simply because it does not fit or varies from your bias.

[Darorinag]

That is because they are in the midst of developing. Perhaps you should stick to issues involving something more at your speech. Like that one section of the forum where they have the Bart Simpson shooting game.

In the midst of developing? lol... A medical innovation... And what a cheap shot.

[loseyourname]

And I tell you again, that is a matter of choice, not inability or some genetically altering biological flaw within the chromosomes.

You're not making any sense. It's okay to choose not to have children with someone of the opposite sex, but if you choose not to have children with someone of the same sex, it's wrong? It's obvious that you are not really basing your judgement on the ability and/or choice to have or not have children. Why don't you just come out and say why it is that you really oppose homosexuality?

[Deviance]

You're not making any sense. It's okay to choose not to have children with someone of the opposite sex, but if you choose not to have children with someone of the same sex, it's wrong? It's obvious that you are not really basing your judgement on the ability and/or choice to have or not have children. Why don't you just come out and say why it is that you really oppose homosexuality?

I did not say otherwise. You re failing to make sense again and casting it onto me. I am just explaining why it will not work if they did. If you really cannot see beyond that then you are using that as a scapegoat for justifying your (and you are not alone) selfish motives. I just had to tell him that simply because he was tampering my facts. That is really the distinction, I was going strictly by given facts today and in general whereas you were forcing it onto me from your ideology.

[loseyourname]

The only true, concrete way I can see saying gay marriage is immoral is due to strict, orthodox religious beliefs. That, I can give you. But not everyone agrees with, nor should they be bound by those beliefs. No one has the right to say "you may not have such and such privilege due to MY beliefs."

I can see an objection if a homosexual couple wants to adopt a child, because then it does interfere with another life. But Jesus Christ, if two people love each other and they aren't hurting anyone, on what basis can you possibly say what they do with each other, under full consent of the other, is immoral? This argument that lack of functionality equates with immorality just doesn't make any sense, especially when Deviance refuses to apply the same standard to any action other than homosexual sex. Why the discrimination? Why should a hedonistic act be immoral? I mean jeez guys, were you raised as Puritans? Do you think masturbation is immoral? The only purpose that serves is self-gratification and hedonism.

Hell, you still haven't shown that homosexuality is innately hedonistic or self-serving. Is not the point of loving someone to serve that person? Why do you need children to validate the relationship? I fail to see how loving another human being, regardless of their gender, is self-gratifying and hedonistic.

[Deviance]

I was observing this issue from a non-secular view. I mean again, you can tamper with it if you want but no where is it my job to explain his own hatred for whatever. Hatred is different from discussion and backing up your points you make.

[loseyourname]

I did not say otherwise. You re failing to make sense again and casting it onto me. I am just explaining why it will not work if they did. If you really cannot see beyond that then you are using that as a scapegoat for justifying your (and you are not alone) selfish motives. I just had to tell him that simply because he was tampering my facts. That is really the distinction, I was going strictly by given facts today and in general whereas you were forcing it onto me from your ideology.

Look Deviance, you won't judge those who choose not to have children and you won't judge those who are infertile. There is no middle ground here. You either have to say that homosexuals choose not to have children or they are unable to do so. There is no third category to put them into. If you think there is, please explain what that category is.