Mind Over Matter

[loseyourname]

From yahoo:

Placebo Effect

Apparently, people can be tricked into feeling better without any external biochemical manipulation. This would seem to lead to the conclusion that it should be possible for a human being to simply will himself into alleviation of symptoms. What do you think?

[SexyAries]

Hmmm this sounds very familiar!!!!



Nice to know my opinions actual ment something and now its proven!!!!!!

Sorry lose I've elaborated on this subject so many times, I can't think of something new to say about it! When I do I will post!


Love you Lose!

[sSsflamesSs]

I don't doubt it for a second - the mind is a very powerful thing.

Here's another scenario...

I heard this story from someone, and apparently, it's supposed to be based on facts.

The big guys in power decided that they wanted to conduct an experiment on one of the inmates of the prison. They tied this guy to a chair, hands behind his back, and manipulated him into believing that they were going to pour boiling water on his hands. They kept repeating this for hours. Finally, they did pour some water on his hands, although the temperature was far from boiling, more like room temperature.

The guy got 3rd degree burns.

[ckBejug]

I agree with flames... I don't doubt it either. I think I've heard that water burn story somewhere (class maybe?).

Faith/belief has a lot to do with this. You believe you are going to get better as a result of taking the medicine.

Faith can heal - not religious faith specifically, but faith and confidence that what medicines you're taking and steps you're taking to feel better are acutally going to make you well. One thing about placebo's- the more confident both patients and doctors are in what they are doing, the more likely people are to heal.

Carl Elliott- London Review of Books, explaining how important placebos can be:

...people who take their placebos diligently do better than those who take them only occasionally; placebo injections work better than placebo pills; brand name placebos relieve pain better than generic placebos; and blue placebos are better sedatives than red ones - except for Italian men, for whom the opposite is true. If phenomena like this puzzle us it is because we have grown too accustomed to the machinery model of medicine, whereby the body is reduced to a complex device and doctors to mechanics. According to the machinery model, placebos should not work at all. Placebos don't work "mechanically," they work socially and psychologically. They work because of our attitudes and beliefs. It's not just a matter of what goes on in our heads, but what goes on in our interactions with other people and the larger culture around us...

When it comes to healing, feeling better, getting well, it is very much a matter of confidence and optimism - when people feel confident and "in control," it isn't unusual for them to do better. This fact goes above and beyond clinical matters...

And what do you think of this? "blue placebos are better sedatives than red ones - except for Italian men, for whom the opposite is true." Hmmm!

[loseyourname]

You guys are ignoring my question at the end? Do you think, given this evidence, that a person can consciously will himself, without the aid of a placebo or any other suggestion, into alleviation of symptoms?

[sSsflamesSs]

Originally posted by loseyourname You guys are ignoring my question at the end? Do you think, given this evidence, that a person can consciously will himself, without the aid of a placebo or any other suggestion, into alleviation of symptoms?

Loser, humans are weak. They need something to believe in (a placebo). So in response to your question, I'd have to say no. I'm sure that there can be exceptions, as there are to anything. However, the majority of people would not be able to control their minds, much less their bodies. Is that sufficient for an explanation?

[ckBejug]

Originally posted by loseyourname You guys are ignoring my question at the end? Do you think, given this evidence, that a person can consciously will himself, without the aid of a placebo or any other suggestion, into alleviation of symptoms?

No. Placebo's work because the person doesn't know that it is a placebo. He thinks he's getting the real thing. Without the aid of something like the placebo I doubt someone could just sit there and wish to feel better and do so...

[SexyAries]

I agree!

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by ckBejug No. Placebo's work because the person doesn't know that it is a placebo. He thinks he's getting the real thing. Without the aid of something like the placebo I doubt someone could just sit there and wish to feel better and do so...

This at least proves that it is theoretically possible. If external suggestion can produce the desired effects, then autosuggestion should be able to do the same. The question is one of willpower and belief.

[ckBejug]

Originally posted by loseyourname This at least proves that it is theoretically possible. If external suggestion can produce the desired effects, then autosuggestion should be able to do the same. The question is one of willpower and belief.

If it is something like an anxiety disorder, or some kind of manic mood disorder, I can see how believing that you will be better and willing yourself to feel better, being optimistic, confident, and happy, can indeed bring upon some desired effect... However, foe something more than those kinds of emotional problems, say for example cancer, it seems that there needs to be the suggestion of something that will lead to a cure of the ailment- for example a placebo that could be in the form of fake surgery, or pills, or injections, etc. Did you read what I quoted in my first reply about how placebo effects vary in their degrees of helpfullness? Sure, we can very well trick our mind into believing we are being administered something that is going make us better, and we get better. However, it seems unlikely that in the absence of such a tangible thing we'd be able to feel better just by autosuggestion.