Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Pro: Agnosticism / Con: Atheism

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 5
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 4 5 template Next
  • #41
    The problem is that we live in a black-and-white world, where you are either one or the other, republican or democrat, liberal or conservative, atheist or religious, etc. The Chinese used to refer to themselves as the "Middle Empire", meaning that they were not at the edges. Confucius and other Chinese philosophers refer to the need to always find the "Golden Mean", i.e. the middle ground, taking the best of both worlds. In the debate of Religion vs. Atheism, the same applies. People are one or the other, but they do not exploit the third way, i.e. a secular non-religious morality that believes in the existence of a Divine Spirit responsible for the things man can not explain, but without the trappings of religion. You can visit the following link if you want to know more about what I mean, but keep in mind that it is only my opinion:

    Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos
    http://www.geocities.com/jgm1975/Spirit.htm
    Latest news coverage, email, free stock quotes, live scores and video are just the beginning. Discover more every day at Yahoo!

    Comment

    • #42
      Interesting read, and all things I've thought about for a long time. Your writing style looks a lot like mine when I'm putting something together as serious in nature as your piece in that link. But any way, a few things caught my attention.

      Your comment about atheism. You mention that you don't care for it because it degrades humans to the level of animals by separating us from divinity. I can understand why the athiest outlook can be depressing, and a bleek one at best, but how does that make it less credible? If it's the truth, it's the truth. The fact that something would suck if it were true is not grounds to dismiss it. Now I am by no means an athiest, nor am I saying it is true, but what I'm getting at is I would hope one would require a better reason to disdain such a notion. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you wrote.

      There were other things as well, but I don't want to get into them and turn this into another religious thread. We've got enough of those going. Poor Dusken has had a hard enough time keeping things on track.

      Comment

      • #43
        Originally posted by jgm1975
        The problem is that we live in a black-and-white world, where you are either one or the other, republican or democrat, liberal or conservative, atheist or religious, etc. The Chinese used to refer to themselves as the "Middle Empire", meaning that they were not at the edges. Confucius and other Chinese philosophers refer to the need to always find the "Golden Mean", i.e. the middle ground, taking the best of both worlds. In the debate of Religion vs. Atheism, the same applies. People are one or the other, but they do not exploit the third way, i.e. a secular non-religious morality that believes in the existence of a Divine Spirit responsible for the things man can not explain, but without the trappings of religion. You can visit the following link if you want to know more about what I mean, but keep in mind that it is only my opinion:

        http://www.geocities.com/jgm1975/Spirit.htm



        (Maybe I misunderstood your stance) but I noticed that you seem to imply that God and spirituality need to coexist. I do not agree with this.

        I also think that Desim is a religion of its own.


        And...I agree with crimson regarding your comments on atheism.

        Comment

        • #44
          Originally posted by jgm1975
          The problem is that we live in a black-and-white world, where you are either one or the other, republican or democrat, liberal or conservative, atheist or religious, etc. The Chinese used to refer to themselves as the "Middle Empire", meaning that they were not at the edges. Confucius and other Chinese philosophers refer to the need to always find the "Golden Mean", i.e. the middle ground, taking the best of both worlds. In the debate of Religion vs. Atheism, the same applies. People are one or the other, but they do not exploit the third way, i.e. a secular non-religious morality that believes in the existence of a Divine Spirit responsible for the things man can not explain, but without the trappings of religion. You can visit the following link if you want to know more about what I mean, but keep in mind that it is only my opinion:

          http://www.geocities.com/jgm1975/Spirit.htm
          I am sure you do understand that Agnosticism is that middle ground and by saying, "Therefore I see two main trends in the world today: followers of a specific religion, and Atheists (implicit or explicit)," you are displacing its value in such a discussion.

          Originally posted by jgm1975 in his article
          The problem I have with Atheists is that they degrade humans, since by removing any relationship with the Divine they reduce them to the level of animals.
          I have an issue with Atheism as well, but your reason has two flaws for me. One, (essentially what Crimson Glow stated) is that you are trying to defeat a concept's credibility using an emotional and/or sentimental reaction, which are incredible in the context of philosophical discussion. Secondly, you say that it separates us from the divine but Atheism is a comment about whether that divinity exists. This argument would essentially be: "You don't believe in God but that does not make sense because God exists and you don't believe it." Also, effecting a negative connotation upon the idea of being an animal is arrogance and not an argument.

          I dismiss Atheism because what I know of it makes it appear to be illogical in the same way that religion is illogical.

          Originally posted by jgm1975 in his article
          Spirituality is the invisible reality that permeates and transcends our physical world and surroundings. It is the force, energy or Spirit that is responsible for such things as love, destiny, fate, luck, life, gravity, etc.
          Originally posted by jgm1975 in his article
          Thus Atheists, by virtue of a sheer absence of spirituality, fail to earn any slight admiration from myself.
          First off, if you are suggesting that an Atheist cannot love, you are being unfair and presumptuous and as cold as you claim the Atheistic outlook is. And, keep in mind that religion is not a prerequisite for the appreciation of any of the arts.

          Now...spirituality. What spirituality entails is not concrete. Its is a vague term that is dependant upon opinion and has not true definition and I have mentioned this in my first post about the use of "God" or "gods." Any argument that uses these words is by its very nature illogical and is dependant upon language and individual preception of a concept. Therefore, attempting to discredit an individual or group of individuals with a certain belief based on their alleged lack of spirituality is meaningless. They may have a completely different opinion as to what spirituality is and you cannot argue it; you can only have a different opinion.


          Just for the phuck of it...
          Originally posted by Crimson Glow
          I can understand why the athiest outlook can be depressing, and a bleek one at best...
          That is not true for everyone. I have met Atheists that are not only astounded but excited about their view of the universe. It is a matter of character.

          Comment

          • #45
            I am pleasantly surprised at the volume of the posts. I am disappointed that many people in other forums do not seem to pay attention to such intellectual topics, so this is a good debate. While I take time to go through the various comments (and I will need plenty of it), here are some quick thoughts:

            - Indeed Atheism is as much a credible philosophy as any other. Philosophies always debate one another, so there is nothing unusual here.

            - I disagree with the notion that Deism is a religion. Deism is a philosophy, not a religion. If Deism takes religious forms, than it ceases to be Deism, but becomes instead a religion or a cult.

            - Yes I may take a intense view against Atheism. There are good Atheists who may not believe in God but who practice good. But there are also Atheists who dismiss those who believe in spiritual existence as lunatics, dreamers and out-of-touch, and I have a problem with them. Worse, they portray those who believe in God as being responsible for so many wars and deaths around the world. True, religions have caused a lot of havoc and death, but so have Atheists with the Russian and French revolutions with their atheistic principles, and Communist regimes around the world. There is plenty of guilt to go around, so I resent when some Atheists, though not all, portray non-Atheists as blood-thirsty, lunatics or both.

            - "you seem to imply that God and spirituality need to coexist. I do not agree with this." Neither do I, so I hope I am not implying it. "God" is just a word pointing to something greater that sometimes humans can not understand. This unknown entity can be referred to as "God", "Heaven", "spirituality" or anything else. Unfortunately religion is famous for such pointless semantics.

            Comment

            • #46
              Originally posted by dusken
              That is not true for everyone. I have met Atheists that are not only astounded but excited about their view of the universe. It is a matter of character.
              Oh I agree, sir. So have I. I think the whole concept that morality and vitality are dependant on spirituality is silly for the very reason you stated. I was merely saying that even in the worst case scenerio, it still doesn't eradicate the prospect of it's actuality.


              JGM - But it seems like you're dislike for atheists revolves around a handful of extremists. It would be like saying someone became athiest only because they could no longer tolerate the brutality and force with which religion pushes rules and labeling onto its respective followers, and that he/she could have no repsect for any of its followers due to this. I would venture to say there are a hell of a lot more athiests who go about their lives without you even realizing they are one, then there are those who show such disdain towards the religious.

              Comment

              Previous 1 2 3 4 5 template Next
              Working...
              X