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Oneness doctrine vs The holy Trinity

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  • #1

    Oneness doctrine vs The holy Trinity

    I made this thread for you Goey.

    hi Anna I am bothering you with these questions again.

    There is something else I am not really understanding from the Bible. I started to read the new testament again..to refresh my memory. Well I remember when we were studying Genesis my professor said that christians believe that Jesus was with God when he created the world. Genesis 1:25 "let us make humankin in our image, according to our likeness...." anywho will im reading the new testament I have this book its called the life of jesus...so it helps me answer some questions i dont know about.

    but there is something it says that i never understood. it says "in the beginning the Word already existed. He was with God and he was God. He was in the beginning with God. He created everything there is. Nothing exists that he didnt make. Life itself was in him, and this life gives light to everyone. The light shines through the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it."

    okay from that the only thing that i do not get is "he was God" I just never understood that. So Jesus was with God and he was God himself. Does that have to do with that fact that its believed God took on a human form for 33 years. (if that makes sense...I dont know Im so lost with this)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Jesus was God's first creation,and so he is called firstborn.

    colossoans 1;15-16 (he is the image of invisible God,the fisrtborn of over all creation.For by him all things were created;things in heavan and on earth visible and invisible....)

    Jesus was God's *master worker* in creating all other things in heavan and earth. (proverbs: 8:22-31 , colossians 1;17 * he is before all things and in him all things hold together*).

    Jesus also was God's spokesman.That is why he is called *the word* (revelation 19;13 * He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood,and his name is Word of God*).

    Goey read Mark 10;18 * why you call me good? No one is good-expect God alone.* Is Jesus denying to be GOD?
    .

    Do you remeber the part where Jesus prays for himself? (John 17 *Father,the time has come. Glorify your Son,that your son may glorify you........I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.and now Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you befor the word began).

    Prayer means communicating/connecting with God .If he was God why would he pray?

    Goey,sorry for my futile effort to answer your question.
    Any mind altering_ substances from our fellow forum mates?
    Last edited by sleuth; 12-29-2004, 04:25 AM.
    I'm a monstrous mass of vile, foul & corrupted matter.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    how come you didint' talk about the oneness doctrine?

    Comment

    • #3
      First of all thank you for answering the question.

      Second, I read your comments. Especially Colossians 1:15-16 and it make so much more sense.

      I feel like I’m going to go all over the place with my comments, but for now it’s the only thing I can do, in order to really grasp this concept. Okay, Sleuth, this is what I believe it is. From what I have been reading so far and looking at my textbook. Correct me if I am wrong, if and when you have the energy too. My apologizes if I’m totally off.

      There are two platforms that must be understood to grasp the true essence of the trinity. I guess that’s why I got confused.

      1.) There is only one God (not three). And 2.) God exists in three distinct persons (not one). One member of the Trinity, Jesus, took on an additional nature at the incarnation - that of humanity. Now we have one person with more than one nature! But if you look at the Trinity God did not "become a man" - it is rather that God added the nature of "humanity" to the nature of "deity" in Christ. The two natures are not combined, nor are they separated into two beings. Rather, they are joined at the point of the person of Jesus Christ. So what I see from this is that Christ, in addition to being God, is also man - not some sort of combination. The human nature was added to the divine. Thus, what is true of human nature is true of Christ ( mortality, etc.), and what is true of God is true of Christ (infinitude, immortality, etc.).

      I found something else about it. An important verse to focus on here is Phil. 2:7. “but emptied himself, taking the forum of a slave, being born in human form.” Sleuth does that mean that this "self-emptying” meant that Christ voluntarily withheld use of his Godhood nature during His incarnation as a man on earth. But, He did not give up His divine attributes and he remained God all throughout the Incarnation. Thus, the God-Man. This goes back to my first question when I asked “okay from that the only thing that I do not get is "he was God" I just never understood that. So Jesus was with God and he was God himself? Does that have to do with that fact that its believed God took on a human form for 33 years.” So, bacially what i got from my own question was that God, took on a human form (Jesus) therefore, Jesus can be called God.

      Okay, thats about it for now. I cant think of anything else to add. My brain is fried. I've been trying to understand this in forever and a day. (Well, not really its only been a few weeks.)
      You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.

      Comment

      • #4
        Impressive, I've always been philsophical but never really got into the religious aspects of it. So sadly I can't help.

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by XxgoeyxX
          First of all thank you for answering the question.

          Second, I read your comments. Especially Colossians 1:15-16 and it make so much more sense.

          I feel like I’m going to go all over the place with my comments, but for now it’s the only thing I can do, in order to really grasp this concept. Okay, Sleuth, this is what I believe it is. From what I have been reading so far and looking at my textbook. Correct me if I am wrong, if and when you have the energy too. My apologizes if I’m totally off.

          There are two platforms that must be understood to grasp the true essence of the trinity. I guess that’s why I got confused.

          1.) There is only one God (not three). And 2.) God exists in three distinct persons (not one). One member of the Trinity, Jesus, took on an additional nature at the incarnation - that of humanity. Now we have one person with more than one nature! But if you look at the Trinity God did not "become a man" - it is rather that God added the nature of "humanity" to the nature of "deity" in Christ. The two natures are not combined, nor are they separated into two beings. Rather, they are joined at the point of the person of Jesus Christ. So what I see from this is that Christ, in addition to being God, is also man - not some sort of combination. The human nature was added to the divine. Thus, what is true of human nature is true of Christ ( mortality, etc.), and what is true of God is true of Christ (infinitude, immortality, etc.).

          I found something else about it. An important verse to focus on here is Phil. 2:7. “but emptied himself, taking the forum of a slave, being born in human form.” Sleuth does that mean that this "self-emptying” meant that Christ voluntarily withheld use of his Godhood nature during His incarnation as a man on earth. But, He did not give up His divine attributes and he remained God all throughout the Incarnation. Thus, the God-Man. This goes back to my first question when I asked “okay from that the only thing that I do not get is "he was God" I just never understood that. So Jesus was with God and he was God himself? Does that have to do with that fact that its believed God took on a human form for 33 years.” So, bacially what i got from my own question was that God, took on a human form (Jesus) therefore, Jesus can be called God.

          Okay, thats about it for now. I cant think of anything else to add. My brain is fried. I've been trying to understand this in forever and a day. (Well, not really its only been a few weeks.)

          Goey you believe God three in one as in Jesus is no different than the father,Jesus is no different that the Holy ghost. In one word three different manifistations of the same *person*.
          Question:
          A) God is only one (god the father)
          B) God the son (Jesus)
          C) God the holy Ghost( which I believe is Gods power)

          Do we have one God and different functions or we have three Gods and therefore 3 different functions?.

          Goey to tell you the truth I haven't done excessive research therefor my opinion based solely on my logic. .

          I do believe that Jesus is Son of a God and my Lord but not god himself.God gave him a misson( which is accomplished by his death for our sins) to be a mediator between Him and men.He stood bewteen God and mankind effecting reconciliation.

          Scrpiture again:


          *For there is one God and one mediator between God and men.The man Christ Jesus.* (Timothy 1 (2;5)).


          The distinction between God and Jesus:

          God raised Him from the dead ( Romans 10;9 ( That if you confess with your mouth *Jesus is Lord * and believe in your heart that GOD RAISED HIM from the dead,you will be saved.

          God gave Him all the power in heaven and earth ( Matthew 28;18 )

          God MADE HIM Lord and Christ ( act 2;36 ( Therefore let all israel be assured of this:God has made this Jesus.....Both lord and Christ.)

          Goey if he had been equal with his father,He would have had this positions and attributes from eternity.

          Goey pay closer attention on Jesus's prayer on the Mount of Olives; (luke 22;42 *Father ,if you are willing ,take this cup from me;yet not my will but yours be done*.


          Lets assume that he prayed as God the Son. If so then God the Son is inferior to God the Father.

          Goey: there are things that out of human realm and comprehension .Sometimes, I just obey to my intuition.
          I'm a monstrous mass of vile, foul & corrupted matter.

          Comment

          • #6
            Good...I never thought of that...

            According to me, Father and the Holy spirit were more similar to me than Father, and Son. I can't really define the holy spirit but it made sense of it being the ideal of God Father......
            .....but after reading all of your posts I get the feeling too that Father and Son have a more distinct link.


            But I can't really conclude anything because there's one notion that misses any clear explanations for me: The Holy Spirit. How could we define the two others without knowing this one.

            Comment

            • #7
              Thank you Sleuth. You don’t know how much I appreciate this. The more you post the better understanding I have of this.

              But I want to say something. When I stated, “God, took on a human form (Jesus) therefore, Jesus can be called God.” To be honest, even I didn’t believe what I was saying. I wrote that so I could see if I am really right about this. However, there is some truth to that I believe. This is coming from my own faith, nothing more nothing else. I believe there is only one God. I do not believe Jesus is “God.” However, I also believe, just as our parents give us a little bit of themselves, God gave a little of himself to Jesus. Just as in Genesis 1:26 it states “then God said: Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness.” So, I feel we have God with in us, but choosing to except it, believe in it or live by it is a different story.

              And I have not done extensive research on this as well. But I do wish somehow, from my own faith and the million questions I am going to ask about the Bible, I will come to an answer (the right answer) in my heart. We shall see.
              You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.

              Comment

              • #8
                Goey, you've been baptised Protestant/ you are Prostestant? Because thats pretty much their view on Jesus .

                "Jesus is rather a model to pattern one's life after, rather than the one through whom God acted to save mankind "

                Thats the protestant way of thinking about Jesus. Now....we could maybe ad that since he is an exemple, he should have a distinct link with the holy spirit.... And didn't the "Father" teach his son in order to acquaint him of the holy spirit?

                Comment

                • #9
                  Actually I believe in both of those things. So what does that make me?

                  Edit: When I say my own faith. I mean from my heart. A set of principles or beliefs in me. Not the body of dogma of a religion. If that make sense. I hope it does.
                  Last edited by XxgoeyxX; 12-30-2004, 12:03 PM.
                  You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by XxgoeyxX
                    Actually I believe in both of those things. So what does that make me?

                    hmmm..you're so difficult to cope with try to be a bit more comformist


                    I don't know what it makes you.......

                    to your edit:
                    Yes it does!! Thats exactly what I meant when I sent you the PM about god.....to be able to build your own believes and no restriction as far of having a different meaning for each aspect of religion.
                    Last edited by !EEK; 12-30-2004, 12:07 PM.

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