If you couldn't marry an Armenian.....

[KanadaHye]

Re: If you couldn't marry an Armenian.....

hahahaha yea, I'm branded U.S. Property =P

What I meant though is I'm "Mexican American" but in completely honesty, we have NO IDEA. We know my mom's side of the family is Mexican (my grandparents, her parents are from Mexico). My parents aren't divorced. They still live togehter and are married. However, on my dad's side, they say we're Mexican, but beyond my dad -- it's up in the air as to what we are. So, I'm just my social security number. hahaha if you check out my profile, you'll truly see I don't look very Mexican, nor very American.

Back to your more serious point though, that intrigues me: "it's easier to take an "odar" who has no cultural ties and have them accept your culture than to marry two people who have vastly different cultures." Are you saying that I can become Armenian -- obviously not physically, but rather by tying myself to that identity?

I've seen Mexicans who looks nothing like typical Mexicans. There have been so many population transfers over the centuries due to war and economic strife. For example, the supposed wealthiest man Carlos Slim is a Lebanese-Mexican.



I'm not saying you can become Armenian in the sense of having Armenian roots but you can graft onto the tree like a branch. I struggled with my identity growing up in Canada as well since I didn't have many Armenians surrounding me aside from family and the occasional community events that my parents dragged me to. I didn't really understand the importance of it until I got older.... for the most part my parents would speak to me in Armenian but I would respond back in English. I find it strange how Armenians who grew up in North America tend to reject their own culture and try to be more Canadian than a Canadian or more American than an American but we really suck at it

[jgk3]

Re: If you couldn't marry an Armenian.....

Armenians, whether they like to believe it or not, are themselves descended from an amalgamation of races who mostly came from Anatolia and the Caucasus, but which spoke different languages from different language families, and had very different cultures from one another. With our conversion to Christianity, this changed, as all these diverse localities were evangelized to the Armenian faith, and given our language, while their own, along with their local customs and pagan beliefs, were persecuted. This happened a long time ago during the 5th century, 2 centuries after our official conversion to Christianity. It was the century that our literary language was born, and was creating an Armenian nation as Assyrian clerics who conducted church service in their incomprehensible language, were pushed out of our churches and replaced by Armenian ones. With the power of our written language, Christianity was no longer a foreign religion, the stage was set for it to become the religion all Armenians would look towards for their basis of identification.

Today, in the diaspora, Armenians find themselves in an awkward situation, because they no longer live in this homeland as children of a collective basis for identification. It is up to Armenians whether they wish to keep their identification, handed down over the centuries and in many cases intensified by periods of conflict and persecution, or, if they wish to identify with their new surroundings in an alien world. Both cases happen quite often. There is a third case however: the Armenian will go through both previous cases and arrive at their own individualized stance that sees culture not as something they belong to or serve, but as something they have inside of them, to be used as they wish. These people are free to interact with any culture they can relate with, they are perhaps what one would call "cosmopolitan".

In my opinion, just as it did not matter what race one was during the 5th century when previous non-Armenians were being evangelized and eventually lived with a centralized, literary Armenian language with which they could all identify, something similar happens if an odar wants to join the community today by attending a local church and wants to learn the language, except that the decision for a mature person to attend church is not forced by anyone in the secular West.

The only point of contention (examples of which can be found in this very thread, along with several others) might be the fact that patriotic Armenians can be so paranoid of the odar culture that surrounds them, because they've seen, or they think they've seen how in the past it has choked their nation to near disappearance, and assimilates their diasporan children to no longer identify with Armenia. Armenians are not the only ones like this, it is classic xenophobia exhibited by people who identify their nation as being a victim of foreigners, and don't have the self confidence (perhaps in the form of numbers in the case of Armenians, who number under 10 million in the world today) to be willing to open up to share their culture in non trivial ways with non-Armenians. Every country has this actually, and I guess they are part of the nation's self defense system. In America, it's only about 10% of the population that is truly patriotic and serves/participates in the country's political leadership, they are xenophobic and they are the ones who are doing the most to advance national military interests! Armenia's population is much smaller, and our patriotic ones are the most vocal, you'll get to hear them quite a bit. Collectively, they do the same for Armenia that republicans do for the US, except that in Armenia, you won't be able to elect "democrats" and hope to keep your national borders and thus their promises for very long :/

But not all Armenians are this way. Maybe I'm an optimist, I think my culture can be shared with others (that's the point of culture), that I can invite and engage anyone interested in it (Armenian and odar alike). If they wish to identify with it someday, that's their choice. I would neither want to push some into it, or try to force others out of it. What we identify with doesn't need to be a club you're a member of, but something you feel inside and follow out of passion and self discovery.

[KanadaHye]

Re: If you couldn't marry an Armenian.....

Armenians, whether they like to believe it or not, are themselves descended from an amalgamation of races who mostly came from Anatolia and the Caucasus, but which spoke different languages from different language families, and had very different cultures from one another.

As with everything, it's always back to the chicken and the egg. It takes people to create a culture and that culture breeds a certain identity.

[Tali]

Re: If you couldn't marry an Armenian.....

Hmm... very deep, both of you.

so to tie this back to topic (i'm new thus i need to obey forum rules exceptionally well! =P)....

KanadaHye very nicely summarized: It takes people to create a culture and that culture breeds a certain identity.

If this is indeed the case, i am curious to know that with all the pressure you guys face to marry another Armenian, why hasn't arranged marriages appeared in your history? Or has it and I just happened to never find it?

[KanadaHye]

Re: If you couldn't marry an Armenian.....

If this is indeed the case, i am curious to know that with all the pressure you guys face to marry another Armenian, why hasn't arranged marriages appeared in your history? Or has it and I just happened to never find it?

Depends on your definition of an arranged marriage. A lot of times Armenians get introduced to other Armenians at functions or through friends/family. If your mind is set on marrying another Armenian, it only makes sense to hang out in places where you'll meet other Armenians. However, it's not like they are forced arranged marriages. We don't show up on the alter and get unveiled to some hideous monster (I say that in the most sympathetic way, lol). Lots of cultures historically don't believe in 'love' so they at least make sure that the woman isn't marrying some vagabond. I'm sure there are thousands of cases where marriages took place for immigration purposes as well. In fact, I'm considering putting in my order for a mail order bride in the upcoming years

[Tali]

Re: If you couldn't marry an Armenian.....

good luck

I meant where the bride to be has a folder full of potential husbands that her parents compiled for her, and she picks one from this pile. After this, there is an introduction between the potential couple. i would think that this practice would be more common because, like you said, introductions are already used.

[KanadaHye]

Re: If you couldn't marry an Armenian.....

good luck

I meant where the bride to be has a folder full of potential husbands that her parents compiled for her, and she picks one from this pile. After this, there is an introduction between the potential couple. i would think that this practice would be more common because, like you said, introductions are already used.

I think that's called a sperm bank

[HYEMP3KING]

Re: If you couldn't marry an Armenian.....

As with everything, it's always back to the chicken and the egg. It takes people to create a culture and that culture breeds a certain identity.

KanadaHye jan, go to www.birthrightarmenia.org and find out about the program. It will really jump-start your identity, and you will know where your roots are. It's a minimum 2-month volunteerism in Armenia. You can do whatever it is in your field, I'm sure they can find a placement for you in one of the programs. They will pay for your plane tickets! YES! They will! They will take the biggest expenses out of coming to Armenia, and in return you will volunteer through various organizations here. I think it will help you and others like you living in Canada or the USA. Hope I could help

[arakeretzig]

Re: If you couldn't marry an Armenian.....

i´m going to yerevan this summer, and will meet this very interesting and nice chick. Not so naive and untouched as i´d have liked, but hey, such personality is boring anyway. Armo chicks are definately in huge supply, you just gotta find the right one, so i dont get this "if you couldnt marry an armo woman" thread. ..

[MrHyeSev]

Re: If you couldn't marry an Armenian.....

i´m going to yerevan this summer, and will meet this very interesting and nice chick. Not so naive and untouched as i´d have liked, but hey, such personality is boring anyway. Armo chicks are definately in huge supply, you just gotta find the right one, so i dont get this "if you couldnt marry an armo woman" thread. ..

arakeretzig what if you lived in a place where there were no Armenian ladies? Would you stay single?