I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

[Sip]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

"The Earth is billions of years old" is NOT anti-religion rhetoric.
"Evolution" is not anti-religion rhetoric.
"Homosexuality is not learned behavior" is NOT anti-religion rhetoric.
(these are facts supported by evidence... lots and lots of it)

These are the kinds of things Siggie has been saying and you are dismissing them as anti-religion rhetoric.

What is anti-scientific rhetoric is you saying things like abuse leads to homosexuality. When you say something like that, you need to explain where you are getting this information. How it was collected, studied, verified, etc. That's the difficult science part. But the more fundamental issue here is, EVEN if abuse leads to homosexuality, that does not mean homosexuality is only a result of abuse.

I will give you a very simple example which I am sure you will again not understand but I will give it anyway:

Siggie is saying something like some kids love the taste of tomatoes.
You say oh but wait, kids that are abused with tomatoes inserted in their anus start liking the taste of tomatoes and some kids in Taiwan are injected with genetically engineered hormones to make them like tomatoes so the tomato farmers can make a profit so tomato liking should be frowned upon by Armenians because of these specific instances.

So what is the main point again?

Main point is that there is a lot more evidence about homosexuality being a biological thing rather than just some learned behavior due to abuse etc. The real problem is you are used to thinking of homosexuals as some sort of weirdos that show up wearing boa feathers and tiny colorful underwear and march around on TV where the large majority of homosexuals in the world look and act like pretty much everyone else ... so you don't even get to know their sexual preferences. You say you are offended by the ones that throw their sexuality in your face on tv or in life but that doesn't mean that's all the homosexuals in the world.

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

You don't need to say you don't like science. You're incredibly science hostile, woefully uninformed on the job, and worst of all, have zero evident desire to discuss it in any meaningful way or to correct any inaccuracies in your related knowledge about science.

I'm hostile towards people who think they know science but what they really know is anti-religion rhetoric.

[KanadaHye]

Re: What people do for money

Woah... so many assumptions!
Are you saying if a female host talked about a home renovation project, women watching that program might not start thinking about a home renovation project of their own and mention it to their spouse? What exactly are they going to go say? Why can't you be more like ____?
Your television host, gay, straight, male, or female, is going to have a life that's different in some key ways than the average person. That's the important piece. Don't assume that gay men don't have jobs, bills, and debts (and more recently, kids too!)

You see the reason they choose gay hosts is so the women can go home and further emasculate their husbands. The hosts didn't create the show, the show's creators decided to choose gay hosts. It's all about the mighty dollar at the end of the day. Gay men have NO WHERE NEAR the financial stress levels of straight men who support families. You again are talking about a FEW instances where a gay couple adopted a kid (probably at a very late stage in life).

[KanadaHye]

What people do for money

Try this for yourself then. Try for just 1 minute (time it!) to be gay. Go ahead. Really just BE gay for a minute... Where you able to do it?

The actor from Will and Grace did it pretty convincingly I'd say.

Okay, too much? Let's try to manipulate what you're attracted to in a different but still equivalent for the purposes of illustration way.

You're always ranting about unfavorable outcomes in marriage... the women benefit from the guys money, divorce an take his assets/money, kids, etc. right? Have you considered dating senior women? Hit the 65+ crowd!!! They can't get pregnant, they probably have their own money and won't be using you for yours, and if it doesn't work out and you get divorced or they die, they'll probably have assets YOU can take. That makes it an attractive enough option right? Okay, so now make yourself attracted to senior age women. Can you do it?

If I was a lost Americatsi who didn't have people around him that taught him right from wrong and would frown upon it, IN A HEARTBEAT.

[Siggie]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Seems to me that the claims that "people are born that way" washes societies hands from solving the root problems or dealing with the issues of abuse.

It doesn't wash society's hands from anything. You think people will care less about sexual abuse if they find out it doesn't influence sexual orientation? Like if it won't make you gay, then don't worry about, man up and forget about? Geh medzanas geh morranas? You believe that's the only reason people think sexual abuse is bad?

[Siggie]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

So the population of China should have been half the size it is now had they been aware of the concepts of lesbianism and homosexuality while under communist rule?

Why would men care if other men are gay? More women for me. What bothers me is when gay men have an opinion and voice on things that affect straight men. Like when they air TV shows with gay hosts that have an all female audience and they make sales pitches on home renovation, cooking, etc. and the women go home and want their husbands to be like the gay hosts! The difference is the gay hosts don't have kids, a wife, car payments, mortgage payments and a sh!tty job at the factory.

Woah... so many assumptions!
Are you saying if a female host talked about a home renovation project, women watching that program might not start thinking about a home renovation project of their own and mention it to their spouse? What exactly are they going to go say? Why can't you be more like ____?
Your television host, gay, straight, male, or female, is going to have a life that's different in some key ways than the average person. That's the important piece. Don't assume that gay men don't have jobs, bills, and debts (and more recently, kids too!)

When did I say I don't like science?

You don't need to say you don't like science. You're incredibly science hostile, woefully uninformed on the job, and worst of all, have zero evident desire to discuss it in any meaningful way or to correct any inaccuracies in your related knowledge about science.

Same reason people choose to be emos, it's a subculture. Or perhaps they feel "liberated" from conforming to "norms". Perhaps they enjoy sex without the consequences of pregnancy. Many reasons. Gay refers to both male and female and there are far less stigmas associated with lesbianism than homosexuality.

Try this for yourself then. Try for just 1 minute (time it!) to be gay. Go ahead. Really just BE gay for a minute... Where you able to do it?

Okay, too much? Let's try to manipulate what you're attracted to in a different but still equivalent for the purposes of illustration way.
You're always ranting about unfavorable outcomes in marriage... the women benefit from the guys money, divorce an take his assets/money, kids, etc. right? Have you considered dating senior women? Hit the 65+ crowd!!! They can't get pregnant, they probably have their own money and won't be using you for yours, and if it doesn't work out and you get divorced or they die, they'll probably have assets YOU can take. That makes it an attractive enough option right? Okay, so now make yourself attracted to senior age women. Can you do it?

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Yeah, really... Who would CHOOSE to be homosexual and be stigmatized and discriminated against if they come out or have to constantly self-monitor and hide who they are if they don't come out?

Further, Kanada, you are also not considering what impact your views would have on the traumatized either.
Already, sexual abuse is more underreported among males compared to females. Given that most abusers are male, widespread homophobia and belief that sexual abuse leads to homosexuality would discourage men even more so from 1) reporting the abuse and 2) seeking help/therapy for coping because they'll worry that this means that they must be gay or that people will think that they're gay. This doesn't help anyone... Your beliefs (setting aside the all important issue of veracity) even if true, wouldn't even be beneficial.

Seems to me that the claims that "people are born that way" washes societies hands from solving the root problems or dealing with the issues of abuse.

[Siggie]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Yeah, really... Who would CHOOSE to be homosexual and be stigmatized and discriminated against if they come out or have to constantly self-monitor and hide who they are if they don't come out?

Further, Kanada, you are also not considering what impact your views would have on the traumatized either.
Already, sexual abuse is more underreported among males compared to females. Given that most abusers are male, widespread homophobia and belief that sexual abuse leads to homosexuality would discourage men even more so from 1) reporting the abuse and 2) seeking help/therapy for coping because they'll worry that this means that they must be gay or that people will think that they're gay. This doesn't help anyone... Your beliefs (setting aside the all important issue of veracity) even if true, wouldn't even be beneficial.

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

And I am telling you the exact same thing applies the other way .. a LOT of gays choose to pretend to be straight their entire lives because of this kind of (wrong) thinking. I would actually argue there are far more that choose the straight lifestyle rather than living the way their biology is really wired up in their minds rather than "choosing" to be gay. I know it makes you happy that way but unfortunately, real life isn't about just making YOU happy. There is also the notion of .. ehm ... other people!

So the population of China should have been half the size it is now had they been aware of the concepts of lesbianism and homosexuality while under communist rule?

Why would men care if other men are gay? More women for me. What bothers me is when gay men have an opinion and voice on things that affect straight men. Like when they air TV shows with gay hosts that have an all female audience and they make sales pitches on home renovation, cooking, etc. and the women go home and want their husbands to be like the gay hosts! The difference is the gay hosts don't have kids, a wife, car payments, mortgage payments and a sh!tty job at the factory.

I know you don't like science ... but think at least about this: Why would anyone choose to be gay? What benefit does it have for them to make that "choice" given sexuality is so instinctive? (unless you think all human sexuality is "learned behavior" in which case I think we'll be going on for a few pages).

When did I say I don't like science?

Same reason people choose to be emos, it's a subculture. Or perhaps they feel "liberated" from conforming to "norms". Perhaps they enjoy sex without the consequences of pregnancy. Many reasons. Gay refers to both male and female and there are far less stigmas associated with lesbianism than homosexuality.

[Sip]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

I am telling you not every single person who is gay was born gay but a lot of cases are due to upbringing and childhood trauma/molestation. There are also those that choose the lifestyle.

And I am telling you the exact same thing applies the other way .. a LOT of gays choose to pretend to be straight their entire lives because of this kind of (wrong) thinking. I would actually argue there are far more that choose the straight lifestyle rather than living the way their biology is really wired up in their minds rather than "choosing" to be gay. I know it makes you happy that way but unfortunately, real life isn't about just making YOU happy. There is also the notion of .. ehm ... other people!

I know you don't like science ... but think at least about this: Why would anyone choose to be gay? What benefit does it have for them to make that "choice" given sexuality is so instinctive? (unless you think all human sexuality is "learned behavior" in which case I think we'll be going on for a few pages).