Define Impurity

[ADandelion]

Re: Define Impurity

Let's see, a woman who has slept with numerous men, done various other sexual acts, then settles down to have children and family. Purity is a important foundation in starting a family, it also is a foundation for trust.

Purity in a large and abstract sense, of having a clean slate, may be important in context of committing no crimes, having a good relationship within both merging families, etc. Those are questions that can lead to very concrete everyday problems.

However, I don't understand how sex is relevant to that. If all prior acts were done in previous relationships before the relationship with the new husband began, then that is in the past. And if the husband has pursued and been interested in other women, even women very close to him, before he began the relationship that led to his marriage, then that is in the past as well.

That would be like faulting the woman for having loved any children before her own were born. The caliber of her love is not diminished from having given it before.

I also fail to see how intercourse means that the husband and children will be tainted forever by that past act. There is a reason why the woman left whatever man she was sleeping with and chosen the man she was marrying. There is no way to prove she will be any more likely to cheat with an ex she slept with vs an ex she only kissed.

If the woman has remained faithful to her current husband and has a generally loyal character, I see no cause for a reasonable man not to trust her. Just as a sensible woman will trust her husband if he left behind the women with who he gained the experience men are supposed to have in order to impart on their new brides.

[hrai]

Re: Define Impurity

I agree. If a girl preserves her virginity and does not m***urbate then surely she is 100% pure and any man should respect her.

Respect her as being made out of wood!

It is wrong to accuse her of being a prostitute if she is not having s*x.

When I first was dating my lady and we weren't sure where it would go, I used Russian girls for sex with her knowledge and prompting. Once we were serious and engaged, things changed and we didn't wait for the wedding day.

Some old values are worth respecting and keeping but some definitely aren't. Who nowadays "kidnaps" their bride-to-be?

[Sip]

Re: Define Impurity

Let's see, a woman who has slept with numerous men, done various other sexual acts, then settles down to have children and family. Purity is a important foundation in starting a family, it also is a foundation for trust.

You can't raise smart kids that will have the potential to become GREAT humans without knowledge, wisdom, and experience (which sometimes only comes after making mistakes in life), and without taking risks. All "purity" does is result in more "pure" boring ass simpleton sheep that base their lives around simplified and very restrictive rules.

Nothing worthwhile comes without risk and the potential for great disaster ... playing it safe and "pure" is the worst thing you can do sometimes.

[London]

Re: Define Impurity

What reason is there for women to be pure? If the reason is cited as 'honor', then by what standards do we judge honor? And how do we validate our views when they are by default subjective?

And again, still interested about the question of masturbation.

I think there could be a deep-seated reason in the minds of men (and children). A woman knows for certain that a child is hers; a man can never be entirely sure. If he marries a woman who has been able to keep herself pure until marriage he understands that her s*x drive is lower than some women's, or that she is better and controlling herself. So if he has to go away for business for instance he thinks the chances of her doing something she shouldn't are a lot lower. For the same reason it is a lot nicer for the children to be born to a mother who was a virgin until she married, because they are more likely to be legitimate.

Re masturbation, by the same logic it should also be avoided.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Define Impurity

You can't raise smart kids that will have the potential to become GREAT humans without knowledge, wisdom, and experience (which sometimes only comes after making mistakes in life), and without taking risks. All "purity" does is result in more "pure" boring ass simpleton sheep that base their lives around simplified and very restrictive rules.

Nothing worthwhile comes without risk and the potential for great disaster ... playing it safe and "pure" is the worst thing you can do sometimes.

Sometime you can learn a lot from watching others crash and burn. An intelligent person will use others and let them eat the mushrooms to see which ones are poisonous and then from their fate learn which mushrooms to pick. Watching sheep fall over the cliff can be a routine event.

Modern Mathematics of Marriage

Smart man + smart woman = romance
Smart man + dumb woman = affair
Dumb man + smart woman = marriage
Dumb man + dumb woman = pregnancy

[ADandelion]

Re: Define Impurity

I think there could be a deep-seated reason in the minds of men (and children). A woman knows for certain that a child is hers; a man can never be entirely sure. If he marries a woman who has been able to keep herself pure until marriage he understands that her s*x drive is lower than some women's, or that she is better and controlling herself. So if he has to go away for business for instance he thinks the chances of her doing something she shouldn't are a lot lower. For the same reason it is a lot nicer for the children to be born to a mother who was a virgin until she married, because they are more likely to be legitimate.

Re masturbation, by the same logic it should also be avoided.

And why is having a high sex drive undesirable? And self-control is all very well, but there should be a reason for it. Control doesn't exist for the sake of control. It's as if one filled shops with delicious food and then told people not to buy any. Yes, there is a risk of obesity, of food poisoning, but is that really a valid reason for cutting off a whole branch of life?

If a man doesn't trust his wife enough to stay faithful when he's gone for a business trip, or she's away on one, then he should have never married in the first place. And if a woman's sex drive is low while a man's i supposedly high, how is that good for a fulfilling sex life during marriage?

Besides, any woman who is masking another man's child as her husband's has some serious issues to work in general. A woman with such a personality will be a snake regardless of whether she had sex or not.I would understand the question of abstinence much more easily if it was applied evenly to both sexes. But it's not.

The double standard can't be validated in any way that seems reasonable to me. If anyone posts a convincing argument, I will be in their debt. Otherwise, I have yet to see one.

My problem isn't with abstinence. If an unmarried couple chooses to abstain from sex for WHATEVER reason, good for them. My problem is with the concept that making a choice in the other direction is invalid.


I also do not understand your reasoning for abstaining from masturbation. As proof of having a low sex drive? If your sex drive was low, you wouldn't WANT to masturbate.

[ADandelion]

Re: Define Impurity

Sometime you can learn a lot from watching others crash and burn. An intelligent person will use others and let them eat the mushrooms to see which ones are poisonous and then from their fate learn which mushrooms to pick. Watching sheep fall over the cliff can be a routine event.

Modern Mathematics of Marriage

Smart man + smart woman = romance
Smart man + dumb woman = affair
Dumb man + smart woman = marriage
Dumb man + dumb woman = pregnancy

I wish people would pay more attention to the failures of others. And not to ridicule them, but to use their experiences to help paint themselves a more accurate picture of how life works.

But standing on the margins and watching life go by is no way to live either. Avoiding romance out of a dislike for it is one thing. I've been there. On the other hand, eschewing it out of fear or repression from either yourself or other people is scarring.

There is a wisdom concerning human relationships that is to be gained by involving yourself fully with a romantic partner. It's not for everyone, although far too many people think it is, but the beauty of having yourself fulfilled like that, and even the unique pain of having it break in your hands, enriches the human soul.

Which boils down to the idea of whether one wants to live a safe life, or an intense life. And there is a spectrum between those two extremes. The line on which we cross over into accepting sexual activity before marriage as a POSSIBLE course of action is subtle, but I believe it lies on the portion of the spectrum that is richer and more fulfilling in the long term.

[London]

Re: Define Impurity

@ Dandelion, I'm not necessarily saying a low sex drive is a good (or bad) thing, just that I think it is better from a man's perspective to marry a woman who does not have an uncontrolled sex drive, ie one that cannot control herself and stay pure until she marries.

The same applies to masturbation. If a woman does not do such a thing, a man knows that she is not being overrun by her sex drive.

Once a couple are married the wife can discover the joys of s*x and know that if it results in a child then it is a blessing rom God and not the end of her chances in life.

[ADandelion]

Re: Define Impurity

If a woman has no self-discipline, then that is indeed a major concern. If she can't stop herself from having sex out of marriage if she wants to stay abstinent, that is also a problem.

But I see no reason for a man to not marry a woman who chose to have sex outside of marriage not out of a lack of self-control, but as a choice.

Because having sex outside of marriage does not necessarily mean you lost control. For people who go about it sensibly, it's planned and carefully thought out as a life choice. If such a life choice was the case, then that shouldn't be an undesirable trait in a woman.

And as for masturbation, I still see no reason why it in of itself is negative. A woman could also avoid eating sweets all her life as a show of self-control, but if sweets are what she wants and it doesn't harm her or others, why shouldn't she? She could also abstain from laughter, or reading for pleasure, or xxxelry, but what reason is there for decreasing her happiness?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Define Impurity

Pleasure comes with a price and somebody has to pay for it. There is a word for men who end up paying for other men's sins... I think it's called sucker.