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Is the Laker dynasty over?

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  • #1

    Is the Laker dynasty over?

    After the Pistons thoroughly embarrassing the "star studded" Lakers in this year's Finals and Shaq's trade to Miami for virtually nothing in return besides trouble maker Lamar Odam (LOL) has the Laker dynasty officially come to an end?

    If that old hag Chick Hearn were still alive to see this trade, he would have had a stroke. The Lakers trade away the most dominant center in the league and get nothing in return. It’s almost as though Mitch Kupchak and Jerry Buss are Kings fans. They’ve been operating undercover, lying in wait for the team's most vulnerable moment before demolishing it. Lets take a look at the current roster.


    Point Guard
    This position is the biggest mess. From Gary Payton and Derek Fisher to Chucky Atkins, Marcus Banks and Sasha Vujacic. It was looking promising for LA’s future until GP threw a whole monkey wrench in it.


    Shooting Guard
    Kobe enough said


    Small Forward

    After a one year Los Angeles sabbatical, Odom(LOL) has gone from the outhouse to the penthouse at the Staples Center. A do-it-all player on the court as well as off, Odom(LOL) thinks he will be the Pippen to Kobe’s Jordan. I think he will end up court before the year is over.


    Power Forward
    This position and starting spot is still a question mark because it’s unknown if Karl Malone will be back as of yet, although Kupchak is penciling him in. Grant is a warrior who will do a lot of the dirty work for a team – defend the post, box out, set hard picks, rebound, get opportune baskets. His knee has been a concern because of wearing down but he still goes out there and plays every night. For some perspective, an overweight Shaq missed more games last year (15) than Grant has missed the past four years (14).



    Center
    Even with the injuries, age, and salary – there is no replacing the fat Shaquille O’Neal. It’s not possible. So what LA did was re-cement Vlade Divac in Laker lore – from the guy who replaced Kareem to the one who replaced Shaq. His style fits perfectly in what LA wants to do in offense and with the state of centers in the NBA he’s still in the top ten, even in his advanced age. Good pick up by the Lakers.



    Are the Lakers DEAD? Have they given away the best center in the league and got absolutely nothing but garbage to show for it. What say you?
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Well, I wouldn't say they got garbage. They got two talented swingmen who can score and rebound (and Butler plays pretty good D, too). They also got a durable big man that will play much better at his natural four position. They didn't get equal value, but they certainly didn't get nothing. I'll go through the positions as you did.

    PG - Obviously, this is the position where they'll be having trouble. Atkins is a solid guy, and maybe he'll play well for them. He won't be expected to do much. He can hit the three with consistency and is quick enough to keep other 1's in front of him. He can be taken advantage of in the post, but there aren't many large 1's in the west that will do that. Vujacic as a backup will likely be a huge defensive liability. The best to hope for with him is that he can develop the discipline to let his offensive talent shine sooner than later.

    SG - Kobe is the best in the NBA on both sides of the floor. They also have a damn good backup in Kareem Rush that can hit the three and is generally a very good perimeter scorer whose defense has steadily improved every year. He needs to learn how to finish, though, and not give up bad fouls.

    SF - This position will be a huge strength for them. Lamar Odom and Caron Butler should be the best one/two punch in the league at small forward. The interesting thing to see is how well Lamar is able to play off the ball, which he'll need to do because Kobe will be the primary playmaker. LA fans seem to be down on him for what he did as a Clipper, but anyone that saw him last year with the Heat knows he's an extremely talented and hardworking player that can take over a game. Either Luke Walton or Devean George can fill in when necessary, though I'd like to see at least one of them traded, along with Brian Cook. There are too many guys at this position right now.

    PF - If they get Malone, they'll be pretty deep here. A starting lineup of Atkins, Bryant, Odom, Malone, and Divac would be an offensive juggernaut. All five can shoot and pass with consistency. Brian Grant was overmatched as a center with the Heat, but he might be the best backup power forward out there. Even if Malone doesn't return and Grant has to start, they don't lose much outside of Malone's passing ability. Grant is a very good rebounder and defender and can't be played off of because he'll hit the short jumper with ease. As Clubbin' points out, he doesn't miss many games and should be there battling the entire season. He's never going to dominate, but he'll always make it difficult for whoever he is matched up with. Medvedenko can come in with instant offense when a spark is needed. If he can learn to pass and play defense without fouling, he'll actually be a good player. As it is, he shows flashes of brilliance every now and then and it'll be up to Rudy T. to figure out how to utilize that.

    C - The Lakers are loaded with talented swingmen and probably won't ask for a lot out of this position. Vlade is the best passing big man in the league and can hit the perimeter jumper. If they can keep his minutes down, he'll be a valuable addition. He probably won't score all that much, but he will get the ball in the post because he is such a great playmaker from there. Let's face it: the Kings were better when Divac was getting the ball in the post than they were later in the year when Webber came back and was getting all the touches. That has to say something. I haven't seen much of Chris Mihm. From what I can tell, he isn't much of a scorer or passer. When he's in the game, he'll probably just be asked to rebound and play defense, which he definitely has the ability to do pretty well. Whether or not his ability translates into actuality is anyone's guess. He's a huge question mark that can either be a godsend or a disaster.


    Obviously, the best case scenario for this team is that Malone returns, Vujacic adjusts to the NBA awfully fast and Mihm finally plays the way he did at Texas. My guess is that all three of these things will not all happen. Even if it doesn't, they should be a solid middle-of-the-pack playoff contender. My guess is that they'll finish somewhere between 5th and 8th, with somewhere in the area of 50 wins. I see a lot of similarities between them and the Memphis Grizzlies, but with better passing and more experience, as well as less shotblocking and post scoring. These are the things I see happening, but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised by anything this season. The Kobe/Shaq dynasty has definitely come to an end, and it's almost impossible to see this team winning a championship this year. We'll see what moves they make in the coming years. This is a franchise that has generally managed to remain at or near the top for most of its existence, so I wouldn't expect anything less.

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by loseyourname
      Vlade is the best passing big man in the league and can hit the perimeter jumper.
      Not to mention one of the best flop-ers ... second only to maybe Fish.
      this post = teh win.

      Comment

      • #4
        I don't know about dynasty? They were dominant for long enough spurts to be able to pull off championships. Dynasty teams were teams like the Celtics (with Bird and b4 him also), the Lakers (during Magic) and obviously the BULLS with Jordan, the most dominant player to play this game.

        Back to the thread, Kobe will have the chance to shine 24/7. I believe he will do some crazy xxxx this year, LA fans get ready to enjoy KOBE at his best. He is gonna make a mess of this league this year. The man is unstoppable, but the skinny ass lanky guy from Detroit made a mochary of him. Can't remember his name. Detroit was smart to make Kobe work his ass off on both sides of the floor. They had him running around after RIP on defense, and getting worked by the skinny lanky guy on offence. Why can't i remember his name. Just my $0.02.

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        • #5
          His name is Tayshaun Prince, and he couldn't guard Kobe one-on-one if his life depended on it. All he did was funnel Kobe into Rasheed and Big Ben. They were smart. They focused the team effort on stopping Kobe and let Shaq go off, figuring Kobe wouldn't pass the ball enough for that to make a difference. They were right.

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          • #6
            Kobe will never amount to the player he could have been. He lacks the discipline to work his ass off to achieve that stature. The greats always kept pushing themselves. Sure they liked showboating, but they were intent on reaching higher and higher levels. Kobe just doesn't give a sh*t. I think he's far from unstoppable. It's just that the NBA is becoming more and more like playground ball, were everyone wants to make the impressive offensive moves, but, save for a few teams (like Detroit), no one wants to play just as hard on the defensive end.

            I also wouldn't go so far as to call the Lakers a Dynasty. If it was, it was extremely short lived in contrast to dynasties of the past. And of all those, the Bulls were my favorite. I live near Chicago, so I got to watch all the games on TV growing up. I can't begin to tell you or explain how boring basketball seems to me now with Jordan gone (I don't count that worthless stint with the Wizards as part of those memories). The Lakers are just a "really good team" for the time being.

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by Crimson Glow
              Kobe will never amount to the player he could have been. He lacks the discipline to work his ass off to achieve that stature. The greats always kept pushing themselves. Sure they liked showboating, but they were intent on reaching higher and higher levels. Kobe just doesn't give a sh*t. I think he's far from unstoppable. It's just that the NBA is becoming more and more like playground ball, were everyone wants to make the impressive offensive moves, but, save for a few teams (like Detroit), no one wants to play just as hard on the defensive end.
              He lacks discipline to work his ass off? What in Gods name are you talking about. He works harder than almost anyone I know as far as training and practice. And you're saying no one wants to play hard on the defensive end? Again, what are you talking about. Kobe is 1st-team all defense, which means he is one of the top defensive players in the league. I don't think you know what you're talking about when it comes to basketball during the present times after the Jordan era.

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by omniscient
                He lacks discipline to work his ass off? What in Gods name are you talking about. He works harder than almost anyone I know as far as training and practice. And you're saying no one wants to play hard on the defensive end? Again, what are you talking about. Kobe is 1st-team all defense, which means he is one of the top defensive players in the league. I don't think you know what you're talking about when it comes to basketball during the present times after the Jordan era.
                Actually, it's exactly due to the reasons that I mentioned in my previous post that I can't watch current basketball. That doesn't mean I haven't kept up with what's going on, like the new book Phil has out, which basically completely contrasts your picture of Kobe working hard in training/practice. It's basically stating that Kobe is a cry-baby pansy who doesn't listen to his coach, or try as hard as he can. And him being one of the top defensive players in the league means nothing to me when I feel the standards for the league have gone downhill. Sure, this doesn't apply to all players, but in general, the league is being taken over by thugs who think this is the black-top. I grew up with the very beginning of the Jordan era, so I have something to compare this too. Jordan, Bird, Magic....and even before that, with Dr. J (<--M.J. was basically an extention of his moves), Wilt Chamberlain (<--Mr. 100 pts in one game), Bill Russell, Jerry West (<--that's his silhoutte on the NBA logo), Oscar Roberston (<--the guy invented the triple-double, for christ's sakes)....these were all guys that kept pushing the envelope, and moving the game to new heights with each proceeding generation. They kept expanding and creating the beauty of basketball. I'm just not seeing that now. I tried watching several seasons (including early in the Laker's run), but it just bored me out of my mind. Either the Jordan and earlier era has spoiled me for basketball, or the NBA standards have sunk. Sorry, that's just how I feel.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Crimson Glow
                  Actually, it's exactly due to the reasons that I mentioned in my previous post that I can't watch current basketball. That doesn't mean I haven't kept up with what's going on, like the new book Phil has out, which basically completely contrasts your picture of Kobe working hard in training/practice. It's basically stating that Kobe is a cry-baby pansy who doesn't listen to his coach, or try as hard as he can. And him being one of the top defensive players in the league means nothing to me when I feel the standards for the league have gone downhill. Sure, this doesn't apply to all players, but in general, the league is being taken over by thugs who think this is the black-top. I grew up with the very beginning of the Jordan era, so I have something to compare this too. Jordan, Bird, Magic....and even before that, with Dr. J (<--M.J. was basically an extention of his moves), Wilt Chamberlain (<--Mr. 100 pts in one game), Bill Russell, Jerry West (<--that's his silhoutte on the NBA logo), Oscar Roberston (<--the guy invented the triple-double, for christ's sakes)....these were all guys that kept pushing the envelope, and moving the game to new heights with each proceeding generation. They kept expanding and creating the beauty of basketball. I'm just not seeing that now. I tried watching several seasons (including early in the Laker's run), but it just bored me out of my mind. Either the Jordan and earlier era has spoiled me for basketball, or the NBA standards have sunk. Sorry, that's just how I feel.
                  Kobe is not a cry baby compared to Vince Carter. I live in T O and the man is the biggest laziest cry baby on earth. I usually see him on Wed. night s with the rest of the Raptors at this club up here in Toronto. He gets no respect here. He doesn't deserve it. I would much rather have Kobe here then Carter.

                  Now with the players pushing the envelope comment just look out for Lebron James. The man is the best thing to happen to the NBA he is gonna dominate this league like Jordan amd Magic did back in the day. He is gonna push the envelope so far that it's gonna make it easier to forget about Jordan, Magic and BIRD.

                  He is God's gift to basketball.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Kobe may be a crybaby, but accusing him of not working is ridiculous. Part of his problem is that almost all he does is work, and apparently f*ck. Still, the dude's social life is almost non-existent. He has few friends and doesn't hang out with teammates because all he cares about is practicing and working out. He's always the first guy to practice and the last to leave. He always shows up to camp in better shape that he was in the year before. He develops new facets to his game every year. Last year he developed a left-handed shot and this year it looks like he's really worked on his three-point shooting. You can also see he's a lot stronger this year, likely because he realizes his team is lacking in post-up players and he'll probably need to learn that as well. His defensive effort is ridiculous. The Lakers have been matching him up with the opponent's best and fastest player for the last five years, and he consistently shuts that guy down while usually still managing to get his own. I've never seen anyone chase around smaller, quicker players the way Kobe does. His team defense could use some work, and he needs to make plays for teammates (something he has shown that he can do very well) a lot more often that he does. You might say he's not the best teammate or that he's not the best person, but questioning his skill-level or his work ethic is completely unjustified. The only other player even close to him in all-around talent and versatility is KG, and KG isn't half the playmaker Kobe could be. I don't think we've seen everything this guy has just yet. He's only 26. Jordan was twice the ballhog Kobe is when he was 26.

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