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    Thread: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    1. #33241
      Registered User Azad's Avatar
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      I like the azeris and Georgians vs Armenia's perception vs actual corruption.
      The Armenian and Georgian difference of corruption is only 2% difference yet the Georgians assume their country is only 1/4 of what the actual % is. We Armenians have the tendency of seeing the world is going the collapse. azeris are living in their imaginary happy world.

    2. #33242
      Registered User Azad's Avatar
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      It seams countermeasure is the talk in the last few days.

      This is interesting
      http://defense-update.com/20170301_sarab-aps.html

      The US
      https://www.dodbuzz.com/2017/02/28/a...ection-system/

    3. #33243
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Quote Originally Posted by Azad View Post
      I like the azeris and Georgians vs Armenia's perception vs actual corruption.
      The Armenian and Georgian difference of corruption is only 2% difference yet the Georgians assume their country is only 1/4 of what the actual % is. We Armenians have the tendency of seeing the world is going the collapse. azeris are living in their imaginary happy world.
      That perception is the result of unchanging government line, with same oligarchs in parliament, slow improvements and worsening economy.
      If you want change this perception, that restructuring and reforming of government and economy should be done deep and with real results.
      Parliament has to change. Some officials who themselfs created bad names and corruption atmosphere around them have to be replaced( president included).
      Economy has to be transferred to progressive and open, lawful field( shadow businesses come out or taken out).
      There are other things that have to be done too, like judicial system reforms.
      Most of this has been included in New prime minister's program.
      People make opinion mostly from actual facts in their lives. Change the facts and you will change opinions.
      That is why this elections matter more for ruling government. If it fails, there may be big troubles ahead.

    4. #33244
      Registered User Azad's Avatar
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Quote Originally Posted by Hakob View Post
      That perception is the result of unchanging government line, with same oligarchs in parliament, slow improvements and worsening economy.
      In small monoethnic societies tribal/family’s preferential treatment is a normal human behavior. The same happens in larger polyethnic societies. Maybe not at the government level but definitely at the private businesses/interest. Just look at Trump how he is openly giving government jobs to all his family members. Don’t believe the West is any better than the old Eastern block. It is all BS garbage! The world is for the ones to grab than you have the ones that want to grab and cannot, they complain.

    5. #33245
      Registered User armnuke's Avatar
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      The graph I posted means we perceive things worse than they are.
      Simply we should perceive it as they are to make our lives easier.
      There's no other explanation, very clear.

    6. #33246
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Quote Originally Posted by Hakob View Post
      Look at the list of countries Armenia has been lined up with and level of personal experiences with corruption(the green line). So Armenia is in level of countries with endemic corruption that has been persistent in their recent history.
      The dot representing perception of corruption in population is the highest in Armenia because of blockade, war and uncertainty of population coupled with overwhelming poverty.
      The fact that the dot is so high indicates the level of discomfort and attention in population to issues country faces.
      It also indicates that Armenians have the highest probability of resisting and changing corruption at the end.
      That gives me hope because I'd rather see this kind of awareness than Tadjikisyan and Azerbaijan, where population is aware only 1/4 of what's going on.
      Also, before trying to use that chart to blame the population (like it has been happening in this forum lately in a spirit of "Armenia is good, it's the population that's no good) one has to see that being at war and in geostrategic quagmire that Armenia is, we should never be in that corruption list and level at all.
      The efforts to make everyone accept level of corruption in order to help rulers is wrong.
      And yes, this oligarchs in power came to it's positions and wealth with African stile mafious murder, corruption and robbery of the nation's wealth starting 26 years ago. People have memory longer that 10 months. That dot represents the awareness of who today's rulers are and how they came to be.
      Anybody trying to convince that Samvel Alexanian, who has monopoly over too many consumer products over which mostly does not pay taxes and shamelessly declares that he does not own any businesses repeatedly ( meaning most of his businesses are in shadow) while being a deputat in parliament is only a perception, I say good luck.
      Last thing to say is, instead of arguing and trying to shut down corruption criticism here, you guys should go and convince people in Armenia that their opinion about corrupt mafia rulers is only a bad perception. That they are actually living much better, wealthier and happier than they think.
      Maybe you will stop emigration that way.
      But if this is to keep government out of harms way, it's not necessary.
      This oligarchs and rulers are going to be there for a long long time. Nothing can change that, looks like.
      I've asked my parents about corruption in Armenia, it seems they all seem to think the country is really corrupt. But when you ask them why? They say things like it is impossible to do business in Armenia. When you ask them if people will shake you down for opening a bookstore or a yogurt stand, they say things like, no, of course not. But if you try to import fuel or sugar, then they will. My question has always been, are people really trying to compete in sugar imports and oil imports? Even in the US those are in the hands of few companies.

      A lot of countries have authoritarian and borderline crony capitalist countries, I mean look at Japan and South Korea. The biggest different I think its the level of inequality. Visibily, Koreans all have a good living standard. However, when one Armenian lives in a mega mansion and another in a shipping container, then we have these perceptions.

      The oligarchy would be wise to "spread the wealth" and try to develop the nation instead of plunder it. I'm getting tired of reading about armenian brandy and tobacco production. We get it. Let's hear about something new.

    7. #33247
      Registered User armnuke's Avatar
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      ^^The new PM Karen Karapetyan is working on changing this.
      Last year 48 companies imported banana, and if you have any issues importing something there are hotlines to contact the gov't.

    8. #33248
      Armenian Enthusiast Shant03's Avatar
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Serviceman Nver Babajanyan Killed on Same Day as Planned OSCE Monitoring Mission on the Line of Contact

      STEPANAKERT, Artsakh (A.W.)—Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabagh) Defense Army serviceman Nver Babajanyan (b. 1980) was killed around 4:50 p.m. on March 1, after being hit by shrapnel during Azerbaijani shelling on Armenian positions in the southeast Martuni direction of the Artsakh Line of Contact (LoC).

      Beginning at 11:25 a.m., the Azerbaijani forces violated the ceasefire several times as they fired 10 shells at Armenian positions using 60mm and 82mm mortars, SPG-9 recoilless guns, and GP-25 grenade launchers, the Artsakh Defense Ministry reported.

      According to the press statement released by the Defense Ministry, an investigation has been launched into Babajanyan’s death.

      Earlier on March 1, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) mission conducted a planned monitoring of the LoC in the direction of the Askeran region, near the settlement of Shyklyar, Artsakh Foreign Ministry reported.

      From the position of the Artsakh Defense Army, the monitoring was conducted by Personal Representative of the OSCE Chairperson-in-Office Ambassador Andrzej Kasprzyk and his field assistants Ghenadie Petrica (Moldova) and Khristo Khristov (Bulgaria).

      On the Azerbaiajni side of the LoC, the monitoring was conducted by field assistant to the Personal Representative of the OSCE Chairperson-in-Office Jiri Aberle (Czech Republic), staff member of the Office of the Personal Representative of the OSCE Chairperson-in-Office Peter Svedberg (Sweden), and Personal Assistant to the CiO Personal Representative Simon Tiller (Great Britain).

      The monitoring passed in accordance with the agreed schedule and no ceasefire violations were registered. However, the Azerbaijani side did not lead the OSCE mission to its frontline positions, according to a statement by the Artsakh Foreign Ministry.

      The monitoring mission from the Artsakh side was accompanied by representatives of Artsakh’s Defense and Foreign Ministries.

    9. #33249
      Registered User Azad's Avatar
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Quote Originally Posted by HyeSocialist View Post
      Japan and South Korea. The biggest different I think its the level of inequality. Visibily, Koreans all have a good living standard. However, when one Armenian lives in a mega mansion and another in a shipping container, then we have these perceptions.
      That is the problem ^^^.
      If the average income in Armenia will triple, perception will get better.
      In order for it to triple, there should be more jobs openings then people seeking work.
      To have jobs created, you need what we perceive as "oligarchy". It is the flashy behavior of certain wealthy individuals that makes them look they are corrupt. Some are corrupt.

    10. #33250
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Quote Originally Posted by HyeSocialist View Post
      I've asked my parents about corruption in Armenia, it seems they all seem to think the country is really corrupt. But when you ask them why? They say things like it is impossible to do business in Armenia. When you ask them if people will shake you down for opening a bookstore or a yogurt stand, they say things like, no, of course not. But if you try to import fuel or sugar, then they will. My question has always been, are people really trying to compete in sugar imports and oil imports? Even in the US those are in the hands of few companies.

      A lot of countries have authoritarian and borderline crony capitalist countries, I mean look at Japan and South Korea. The biggest different I think its the level of inequality. Visibily, Koreans all have a good living standard. However, when one Armenian lives in a mega mansion and another in a shipping container, then we have these perceptions.

      The oligarchy would be wise to "spread the wealth" and try to develop the nation instead of plunder it. I'm getting tired of reading about armenian brandy and tobacco production. We get it. Let's hear about something new.
      Small businesses thrive only when money is not concentrated in few hands and people have it to spend. You can open up bookstore, no problem, but local people have to buy so you prosper.
      I think, biggest reason for such a high public conception of corruption is because unlike other nationalities we have deep knowledge of the world. Unlike Azeris or Tadjiks, most people in Armenia have pretty good idea of life elsewhere. Maybe it's a curse but it's not a fault. They want to live like French, Germans or Dutch. But one problem persists is the Soviet legacy.
      I sincerely hope that we as a nation can "make a bed to our height" so to speak.
      Anyway, let's transfer this conversation to "Armenian politics", there is a man down in Artsakh.

    11. #33251
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      edited : not linked to military thread
      Last edited by haydavid; 03-01-2017 at 11:05 AM. Reason: derailing the discussion

    12. #33252
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Quote Originally Posted by armnuke View Post
      The graph I posted means we perceive things worse than they are.
      Simply we should perceive it as they are to make our lives easier.
      There's no other explanation, very clear.
      When I saw this charts I was a bit forgiving to the authorities, and critical to myself for exagerating things until I realised Moldova was very simmilar to Armenia.

      Alarm bells rang.

      Having seen the Source: European Bank for Reconstruction and Development my thoughts were this organisation is corrupt and persuing political goals.

      Just for the record due to corruption this country ( Moldova) is bankrupt.

      Its reserves has been depleted with a 1 BILLION euro fraud.

      Nobody can identify where these funds have gone ( dissapeared ), as usual polititians accusing each other without any conclusion.

      There were huge demonstrations to come out of Euro treaties and join the euroAsian mob.

      Do I need to say more.

      .
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    13. #33253
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Մտահղացման համաձայն` հնարավոր է օդային հարձակում Երեւանի վրա. ԱԻՆ վարժանքները








    14. #33254
      Registered User armnuke's Avatar
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Quote Originally Posted by londontsi View Post
      When I saw this charts I was a bit forgiving to the authorities, and critical to myself for exagerating things until I realised Moldova was very simmilar to Armenia.

      Alarm bells rang.

      Having seen the Source: European Bank for Reconstruction and Development my thoughts were this organisation is corrupt and persuing political goals.

      Just for the record due to corruption this country ( Moldova) is bankrupt.

      Its reserves has been depleted with a 1 BILLION euro fraud.

      Nobody can identify where these funds have gone ( dissapeared ), as usual polititians accusing each other without any conclusion.

      There were huge demonstrations to come out of Euro treaties and join the euroAsian mob.

      Do I need to say more.

      .
      My goal from tje post is not to make you or anyone feel sympathy towards the authorities, please don't take it that way.
      Almost everyone I meet in Armenia nags and complains often about issues that I believe are not bad to that extent.
      As Mher wrote once, even the younger generation do not pick up their smartphone to google a fact about the country, but rather repeat what everyone says.
      Moldova is fairly represented with about 25% of the respondents saying they have experience corruption as opposed to Armenia which shows around 11%. That's more than double for Moldova.
      The institution is not corrupt as you mentioned in your post, they have nothing to gain from Armenia by representing it as better.
      It's a simple study and those are the results.
      http://www.ebrd.com/home


    15. #33255
      Registered User Azad's Avatar
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      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      The chart's headline is " ... by country". It seams they are selective of the countries.
      Attached is a better study while covering all countries and types of corruptions.

      https://ourworldindata.org/corruption/

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