What if (Transcaucasian Federation)

[ara87]

How do you think, Armenian history, and world history in general would have differed if the Transcaucasian Federation (the first one, not the soviet one) consisting of Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan , stayed united and independent? How do you think it would have changed the course of the Middle East and USSR?

Also I imagine problems between the 3 over land claims, wouldn't have been as great b/c it would have moved to a more centralized government between the 3, and although autonomous regions would have separated, they would have become equals in the federation, much like how states in the USA used to be parts of other states, but are now separate, yet still part of the same country and government.

[jgk3]

Re: What if (Transcaucasian Federation)

such a federation is comparable of having one between Israel, Lebanon and Syria in terms of how well they'd inherently get along with eachother.

[ara87]

Re: What if (Transcaucasian Federation)

such a federation is comparable of having one between Israel, Lebanon and Syria in terms of how well they'd inherently get along with eachother.

still, this is a "what if" question. And that's a different situation b/c Armenians, Azerbaijanis, and Georgians did not just waltz in and tell the locals to deal with it or get lost. Also Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan, never told each other the other didn't have the right to exist. (Syria & Lebanon vs Israel, Syria vs Israel) and Syria is larger and has a higher population so it would be an unbalanced situation.

[yerazhishda]

Re: What if (Transcaucasian Federation)

still, this is a "what if" question. And that's a different situation b/c Armenians, Azerbaijanis, and Georgians did not just waltz in and tell the locals to deal with it or get lost. Also Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan, never told each other the other didn't have the right to exist. (Syria & Lebanon vs Israel, Syria vs Israel) and Syria is larger and has a higher population so it would be an unbalanced situation.

You do know that the official stance of Azerbaboonistan is that Yerevan belongs to them, right?

[truAnatolian]

Re: What if (Transcaucasian Federation)

I think a Tri-caucasian federation would be amazing! We (the caucasian peoples) would control East-West and North-South. Unstoppable if you ask me.

If you look back in hisory, great empires usually arise when people of similiar genetic make-up unite. I.e Union of the Anglo-saxons under the British, Union of the Turkic tribes under Atilla the Hun, Union of the Arab tribes under King Saud, Union of the Germanic Tribes etc etc.

A union of the caucasian tribes would be a new force to reckon with. Sure it will take some time to build infrastructure and military but our simple geo-political location all combined would be enough to oppose even the greatest of super-powers.

But ofcourse those same super powers would never let that happen, not in a million years. Our differences give them power, divid and conquer as they say.

[gmd]

Re: What if (Transcaucasian Federation)

sounds good. i was thinking about this lately, that way none of them would be as easily bullied if they were united. They probably wouldn't be bullied.

But.........

We are man. The creature who has managed to unravel the secret of the atom, yet hasn't figured out a way to feed his starving neighbor.

It would be nice. Really would.

Just a curiosity. Would you guys be willing drop certain issues amongst the georgians, azeris, and us turks for a united anatolian-caucasian federation? Would it be worth it? (of course we're assuming fair representation and equal rights, i mean it worked in the ottoman times up until the europeans ignited all the minorities to fracture the ottoman empire)

This sounds like a sick joke. I don't get why the same historical misconception is repeated.
Why don't you ask Armenians just to pack up and leave Armenia that way they can avoid the next Genocide? At least that would be a more honest statement.

[truAnatolian]

Re: What if (Transcaucasian Federation)

Im all for it though it would inevitably end up like Yugoslavia. What most people don't know is that Armenians had some of their best acheivements during the Ottoman Times. One day I hope armenians will be proud of our Contribution to the Ottoman Empire as we were an integral part of its development, just as we are proud of our contributions to the Soviet Union. The Genocide is a very clouding issue, it takes over all senses sometimes as you can tell with some of this brick heads here, they refuse to bend in anywhich way even if its for the greater good. Im not saying give up Genocide recognition, never, Im saying we can embrace Turks strategically for the sake of stability and prosperity.

However including Turkey is dangerous because they would essentially be the head of the alliance, I mean 73 million population, there is no chance for equality. As for uniting with the Georgians and Azeri's I could definatley live with that. The alliance would ofcourse have to be on good terms with Turkey.

[gmd]

Re: What if (Transcaucasian Federation)

Anatolian, there is a reason people study history. Hopefully not to repeate the same mistakes. I hope you never attain a position of influence. You present a myopic free love attitude. It is one thing to speak with your enemy but another to invite him in your home and turn your back to him. Turkish/Ottomon leaders spoke sweet words to Armenians right before they had them killed.

[truAnatolian]

Re: What if (Transcaucasian Federation)

Well the British and French fought the 100 years war, slaughtered eachother and now get along Great...... The Americans Nuked the Japanese TWICE, and japan just got on with its business, did very well and is in the G8.

We are only costing ourselves by refuising to give up this enmity. My friend in turkey, who recognizes the genocide and our land claims by the way told me that our problem is that we Push for recognition but as Enemies of Turks. He said we need to educate turks not force things upon them in a hostile fashion. So I guess is your goal a prosperous armenia, and a recognized Genocide or is it to take Turkey down and give it a hard time at all costs?

I mean there's talk of joining the Russian Federation on this forum, for god sakes! For the purpose of doing anyhthing but meeting the turks half way? I mean c'mon, it's time to worry about ourselves and not the Turks!

We have a nation state in the 21st Century! Historically speaking that is very veyr rare for Armenia, and look what we're doing with it.!!

Its time for an attitude change between Armenian, Azeris, Georgians and Turks alike.

Let me quote Einstein here: "The only remedies against race and prejudice are englightenment and education. This is a slow pain-staking process"

What do most armenians know about turks beyond the Genocide? For Turks their victory against the allies is what the victory over azerbaijan is to us.

We have to understand that they have their heroes and martyrs, their losses, their greivances. They're not gonna give that up because of what is morally 'just' or historcially true. Even if they did, then we have to fight the Kurds that replaced us in Eastern Anatolia.

There is too much short sightedness on our behalf.

[gmd]

Re: What if (Transcaucasian Federation)

I see Genocide Recognition in the west as one of the tools at our disposal. This discussion is not centered on that. The discussion is about the TransCaucasFed. I think floating that idea around now is as useful as stapling wings on a pig. Making peace with Turky and the Azeris is different then sharing one state with either of them. I think the situation between France and the Brits was far more balanced. Eventually neither could conquer the other and they both faced a common threat from the East so friendship was able to develop. That scenario does not exist for Armenia.