Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork City 19

[Anoush]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

Sireli Anoush,
bickering between Armenian Political Parties over petty (western) ideological grievances only serves to destroy the Armenian Civilization. what happened to members of your family and indeed others is tragic and absolutely uncalled for. For this Reason i don't proclaim any party allegiances, I only worship and obey my nation and the intellectual fruits from her wisdom - especially the principle of Unity.
i give praise, where praise is due - a warm Congratulation to parties like the ARF who have contributed to our azadoutioun and survival. But all sides of the spectrum must stop this mud-slinging and look at the bigger picture.

You are right, the mudslinging is totally unnecessary today especially for the diasporan Armenians when we need each other; amidst assymilation problems who needs fighting? Thank God we now have our Republic and Artsax. If there's less corruption in the motherland it would be better so the poor will not travel to Russia or other lands to make ends meet.

shad shnorhagalem, likewise

[Hye_Psycho]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

Sireli Anoush,
bickering between Armenian Political Parties over petty (western) ideological grievances only serves to destroy the Armenian Civilization. what happened to members of your family and indeed others is tragic and absolutely uncalled for. For this Reason i don't proclaim any party allegiances, I only worship and obey my nation and the intellectual fruits from her wisdom - especially the principle of Unity.
i give praise, where praise is due - a warm Congratulation to parties like the ARF who have contributed to our azadoutioun and survival. But all sides of the spectrum must stop this mud-slinging and look at the bigger picture.

BTW; I like your "zinaneshan" it looks good.

shad shnorhagalem, likewise

[Anoush]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

yes
especially those who wave the red socialist flag instead of the Armenian tricolor...
http://www.arf1890.com/arf-logo-trans.gif

Hye-Psycho jan, Ramgavars in Egypt acted so much like communists in Egypt that even the Egyptian government naturally started being on the side of the ARF because ARF doesn't believe and never believed in communism, so naturally an Egyptian nationalistic government they tend to be on the side of democratic nationalistic ARF's side. It was sheer shame how Ramgavars carried on in Egypt as well as in Lebanon and Syria. Years ago they started a huge fight against the Tashnagtsagans and one Ramgavar man threw a big rock on my mother's uncle's head and cracked his head, he had to be hospitalized. They acted against the ARF people as if they were turks. I tell you it was shameful times. Thank God things are better now as they wisened up; but still every now and then they want to mudsling Tashnagtsoutyoun to put down the grand deeds that they did throughout their 119 years of great achievements as a super nationalistic organization.

BTW; I like your "zinaneshan" it looks good.

[Hye_Psycho]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

Sometimes people need to go...

yes
especially those who wave the red socialist flag instead of the Armenian tricolor...

http://www.arf1890.com/arf-logo-trans.gif

[Anoush]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

In a nationality that is secure with its own identity you will not find talk all the time of traitors. About the only countries these days that seem indulge in this "traitor" mudslinging more than Armenia are Turkey and Russia.

In the 1930s it was perfectly natural, given the traumas, piled one on top of another, that Armenians had suffered, that there was a lot of internal conflict amongst the Armenian diaspora, with the assasination an extreme example of it. But this is the 21st century, not the 1930s.

As for who planned and carried out the assasination - nobody can seriously question the ARFs involvement in it.

I would agree with you that we are not the 1930s to talk about these matters now; but some ramgavars to this day keep on mudslinging the ARF that they were involved. But I happen to know from my own grandfather's uncle who was with Tourian himself in Smyrna and what he did to the Armenians of Smyrna and how he left them behind to be massacred. Most probably the ones who killed Tourian were a few people who's families were massacred by the turks in Smyrna as Tourian himself told them not to worry, nothing will happen to the Armenians in there. But the ARF had nothing to do with it.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

Cat; don't question the turks and how they masterminded the Armenian Genocide, after all they're the ones who did the Genocide from 1915 through 1923; however in some instances there was a few Armenians who kissed the behinds of the turks and have acted in extreme selfishness and have become or acted like traitors.

Tell me cat, in what nationality you will not find some traitrors?

In a nationality that is secure with its own identity you will not find talk all the time of traitors. About the only countries these days that seem indulge in this "traitor" mudslinging more than Armenia are Turkey and Russia.

In the 1930s it was perfectly natural, given the traumas, piled one on top of another, that Armenians had suffered, that there was a lot of internal conflict amongst the Armenian diaspora, with the assasination an extreme example of it. But this is the 21st century, not the 1930s.

As for who planned and carried out the assasination - nobody can seriously question the ARFs involvement in it.

[Anoush]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

And we complain of Turks and their fancyful, invented histories.

Cat; don't question the turks and how they masterminded the Armenian Genocide, after all they're the ones who did the Genocide from 1915 through 1923; however in some instances there was a few Armenians who kissed the behinds of the turks and have acted in extreme selfishness and have become or acted like traitors.

Tell me cat, in what nationality you will not find some traitors?

After all, it was the young turks who masterminded and carried out the Genocide. Let's say that Tourian in Smyrna have acted in extreme selfishness by saving his own skin and left the country while he acted like Judith towards his own people.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

Whether Tourian was assasinated by ARF was not true. I know for truth from my own grandfather's memoirs that it was allegations and holds no truth. Archbishop Tourian was the source that most of the Armenians were massacred in Smyrna, Turkey in 1922; because he himself told Armenians until the very last minute not to worry that there was not going to be any massacres or killings. He believed or wanted to believe the words of the British ambassador in Smirna who said that Kemal Attaturk is coming to Smyrna with white gloves (meaning not to kill). Yeah right, turks and white gloves. The Archbishop Tourian told to the Armenians not to worry time and again until the very last minute and because of it 130,000 Armenians were massacred in 1922 in Smyrna. Meanwhile Archbishop Tourian escaped from the back door of the Church and travelled to the United States ONLY saving himself. Therefore years later a few of the survivors from the Smyrna massacres remembered all this with vengence and killed him. But many wanted to find Tashnagtsoutyoun as the culprit and put a number of Tashnagtsagan young gentleman who were innocent in the prisons and let them rote. But Tashnagtsoutyoun didn't do it, Tashnagtsoutyoun had nothing to do with it. It was a lie.

I will dig into my own grandfather's memoirs if you wish to have more proof; but this is what transpired. What I am telling you now was the truth! My grandfather's memoirs are in Armenian, it has been translated lately in English, but I have to search for it if you must. I know all this for fact as my grandfather's uncle was Archbishop Tourian's assistant "Arachnortagan pokhanort Tourian Arkebisgobosin" and he was also left behind with the 130,000 Armenians who have been told by Archbishop Tourian NOT to worry there was not going to be any massacres; yet they were all annihilated by the attaturks.

And we complain of Turks and their fancyful, invented histories.

[Anoush]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

yes it's a shame and Arch Levon Tourian is not the only patriotic Armenian that the ARF has assasinated.The bad news is that they are continuing with their old ways.

Whether Tourian was assasinated by ARF was not true. I know for truth from my own grandfather's memoirs that it was allegations and holds no truth. Archbishop Tourian was the source that most of the Armenians were massacred in Smyrna, Turkey in 1922; because he himself told Armenians until the very last minute not to worry that there was not going to be any massacres or killings. He believed or wanted to believe the words of the British ambassador in Smirna who said that Kemal Attaturk is coming to Smyrna with white gloves (meaning not to kill). Yeah right, turks and white gloves. The Archbishop Tourian told to the Armenians not to worry time and again until the very last minute and because of it 130,000 Armenians were massacred in 1922 in Smyrna. Meanwhile Archbishop Tourian escaped from the back door of the Church and travelled to the United States ONLY saving himself. Therefore years later a few of the survivors from the Smyrna massacres remembered all this with vengence and killed him. But many wanted to find Tashnagtsoutyoun as the culprit and put a number of Tashnagtsagan young gentleman who were innocent in the prisons and let them rote. But Tashnagtsoutyoun didn't do it, Tashnagtsoutyoun had nothing to do with it. It was a lie.

I will dig into my own grandfather's memoirs if you wish to have more proof; but this is what transpired. What I am telling you now was the truth! My grandfather's memoirs are in Armenian, it has been translated lately in English, but I have to search for it if you must. I know all this for fact as my grandfather's uncle was Archbishop Tourian's assistant "Arachnortagan pokhanort Tourian Arkebisgobosin" and he was also left behind with the 130,000 Armenians who have been told by Archbishop Tourian NOT to worry there was not going to be any massacres; yet they were all annihilated by the attaturks.

[Federate]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

You're funny. Are you saying that
"the "Dro group" was nothing but LTP's manipulation of the upcoming elections where the ARF was the main opposition group challenging his corrupt government"
is not "claiming...the truth therefore the burden of proof"?

http://www.arf.am/English/ARFNews/06/0601.htm#SupremeCour

The Armenian Reporter is professional and independent enough and far more than any pro ARF media outlet that has ever existed. Please humor me.

Because "worldwide campaign of vilification and mud slinging" is such professional and independent journalism

"[A]llegedly undermining human rights" is another funny one. The independent source at the time failed to realize that LTP was a de facto dictator?

The ARF stands out. When it comes to other organizations it has been occasional, when it comes to the ARF it has been frequent.

Many ARF members were shot dead and/or abducted in the Middle East and elsewhere. It has not been "occasional" for any organization, they all committed their crimes and the ARF only stands out in your eyes because of your hate for the party.

hahaha What evidence? He just said that "he was unsure if the evidence was true". I did not miss it, I just did not think that it was relevant for the point I was making: the ARF members have always been involved in shady illegal and criminal activities. I'm sorry if it's your party.

Yes it's a possibility members of the ARF, irrelevant to their party's ties, have been involved in narcotics trade.

It's not my party but I have great respect for it.

hahaha You discard the Armenian Reporter as biased and the only link that you provide is from arf.am!

Relax. I was providing you with their version of events so you could hear both sides of the story and not only the side you want to hear. Besides, the link also had a piece where it shows the ARF was cleared of any linking to the alleged "Dro group" by Armenia's supreme court...

Thank god that they never had a chance and let's pray that they will never have. Their popularity continues to decline.

And the Ramgavars and Hunchagians doesn't? lol.

The ramgavar/AGBU. Also they are in better terms with other minor parties, while the ARF has always agressed all other parties and they're paying the price. Civility and tolerance of others help even in politics where hypocrisy rules.
The ARF's popularity keeps declining and it's a good thing for Armenians.

The AGBU claims to be for all Armenians and is not a political party so let's leave it out. The Ramgavars in no way match the ARF's numbers and influence. The other parties have similarly been aggressive yet have not gained much coverage due to them being pretty small and irrelevant in the big picture of things.

Many Armenians newspapers covered the shameful anti-Armenia lobbying. I can't believe that this is the first time you hear about it because it lasted a while. Were you in a coma?

It's indeed interesting to hear this though I doubt the extent of the "anti-Armenia lobbying". That would not stand with many in the ARF, I think you are exagerrating and mixing "anti-Armenia" with "anti-Armenian government".