Urartu-Religion

[jgk3]

Re: Urartu-Religion

Religions are used as a medium for expressing aggression or vengeance that are inherent values to a certain segment of the population. It is not the fault of Christianity or Islam that such people exist.

These Abrahamic religions were successful at conducting acts of extreme aggression throughout their histories due to the fact that their main cult isn't exclusive to a certain class, but accessible to all races and levels of social standing. The incentives for violence and intolerance against "enemies" were promises of rewards in heaven, and a mark of prestige or status for having served God or Allah on a holy war for the good of the religion.

This is similar to a population that worships democracy as a standard for the whole world, treating it as something worth killing and dying for.

I have great doubts that this kind of interpretation and behavior towards religion did not exist prior to Islam and Christianity. The difference in the amount of bloodshed and intolerance on the Earth is proportional to the popularity of the religion to people from all walks of life, including those who have a great desire to plunder and kill for material self gain or for the honour of serving their god. When the leading men of a state are predominantly of this violent/intolerant type (usually when a clique of such men seize power by a coup), you can expect "religion" (though it's most often just politics using religion) to express itself in this violent and intolerant way.

This behavior could've very well existed in the totemistic age of religions in the Middle East and Europe, or with solar deity worship, or Zoroastrianism, you name it. Maybe the reason for why we're not thinking of their bloody histories is because records of them have been lost or destroyed, or never even written.

[Jam]

Re: Urartu-Religion

And what is wrong with those "semitic" religions?

Btw, "semitic" is intended to be purely a linguistic term, it has no place in describing religions or races.

I suppose by criticizing "semitic" things, you are in the "indo-european" camp?

Muslims killed people and destroyed temples and cultural values to convert people to Islam. Christians also destroyed temples in Roman Empire, Iran and other places and converted some of those buildings into churches. Thousands of temples and holly places in North Europe were destroyed by early Christians. Look at South America how Native Americans are forced become Christians. You just have to google it and you'll find out.

Semitic is the word used for Arabs and Israelites. I could say also Abrahamic religions since Abrahamic religions are all Semitic.

http://www.fisicx.com/quickreference/religion/semitic.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

[jgk3]

Re: Urartu-Religion

And what is wrong with those "semitic" religions?

Btw, "semitic" is intended to be purely a linguistic term, it has no place in describing religions or races.

I suppose by criticizing "semitic" things, you are in the "indo-european" camp?

[Jam]

Re: Urartu-Religion

Armenians were at one time Zoroastrians. Some remained and even fought against St. Vartan alongside the Persians.

Yeah I heard about it. Don't you think it is bad that native religions of Iran (Persia), Armenia, Greece, Roman Empire and the rest of Europe disappeared or got weak and Semitic religions like Islam and Christianity dominated.

Iranians, Armenians, Greeks, Romans were much stronger and well known before the rise of Semitic religions.

[Joseph]

Re: Urartu-Religion

Armazd or also called Ahura Mazda is the Zoroastrian god. Zarathustra which is the prophet of Zoroastrians/Zarathustrians mentions Ahura Mazda in his book called "Gatha". It is possible that some Armenians were Zoroastrian like Achaemenids, Parthians and Sassanian were.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahura_Mazda

Anahit was a kind of a female godess of water. Armenians use the word Anahit instead of Anahita. Anahita was very important in Mithraism (pre-Zoroastrian religion of Iran).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anahita

Armenians were at one time Zoroastrians. Some remained and even fought against St. Vartan alongside the Persians.

[Jam]

Re: Urartu-Religion

Armazd, Anahit and I think Hayk were also indigenous Gods/Godesses of Armenia/Urartu, as I know Armenians like many Pagan societies made great leaders into Godlike status later on (similar to Egyptians, Celts, Aztecs, etc.)

Armazd or also called Ahura Mazda is the Zoroastrian god. Zarathustra which is the prophet of Zoroastrians/Zarathustrians mentions Ahura Mazda in his book called "Gatha". It is possible that some Armenians were Zoroastrian like Achaemenids, Parthians and Sassanian were.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahura_Mazda

Anahit was a kind of a female godess of water. Armenians use the word Anahit instead of Anahita. Anahita was very important in Mithraism (pre-Zoroastrian religion of Iran).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anahita

[hrai]

Re: Urartu-Religion

Always remember Article 301! No matter who writes articles or books about Ancient Civilizations in "modern Turkey" they will try to connect the past to people and languages to present day Turks bypassing Armenians. While reading a book on these topics, you should first determine who commissioned the book.
But you folks seem to be a knowledgeable bunch so I will throw out my questions to you also. I am always looking to expand my library in Ancient History. I would appreciate your help. You mentioned books on Urartu, I would appreciate a list. The ones I came accross were in German and I do not read German. I also want info on the Nairi, again not just a few paragraphs but books, Articles, etc. The third topic is Sasun from beginnings.
Thank you all in advance.

So many books written about our subjexts and history use turkey as the location, this distracts from the content but I suppose the writers are playing the game to get continued access to the sites they wish to investigate.

On my shelves I have a book " The Peoples of the Hills" which gives some references, let me get the full details for you, perhaps tomorrow.

Meanwhile consider this........Civilization in the Armenian Highlands predates the so-called Fertile Crescent. The Sumerians etc. had the Epic of Gilgamesh where he had to go to the holy mountains (Armenia). The Sumerians believed their ancestors were from Armenia and so was Abraham.
But were perhaps the Pyramids the only way the Egyptians could replicate the Holy Mountains in the flat deserts?

[Sasun]

Re: Urartu-Religion

Always remember Article 301! No matter who writes articles or books about Ancient Civilizations in "modern Turkey" they will try to connect the past to people and languages to present day Turks bypassing Armenians. While reading a book on these topics, you should first determine who commissioned the book.
But you folks seem to be a knowledgeable bunch so I will throw out my questions to you also. I am always looking to expand my library in Ancient History. I would appreciate your help. You mentioned books on Urartu, I would appreciate a list. The ones I came accross were in German and I do not read German. I also want info on the Nairi, again not just a few paragraphs but books, Articles, etc. The third topic is Sasun from beginnings.
Thank you all in advance.

[jgk3]

Re: Urartu-Religion

I unfortunately don't have any books to recommend that deal specifically with Urartians, it is my knowledge about other ancient religions and civilizations that I'm trying to relate to the descriptions of Hurro-Urartian religion that I am finding on the internet, whether through forums, wikipedia or websites, all of which have biases to be sorted out. I think what I've read so far on the net serves as a good introduction and I encourage you to use this media, for now.

But I can refer you to some authors, dealing with comparative religious studies which deal with both Ancient and more modern religions: Alan Watts, Rene Guenon, Julius Evola. I also encourage you to read about the mythologies of different civilizations, how certain cults of worship or wisdom were restricted to the royalty/high caste society , others vulgarized for the masses (such as the Armenian cult of Anahit). I think being able to identify the above in any religion is important. In hierarchically stratified societies, you can often find a high caste tending to focus most on rituals to find mastery of themselves and find solidarity as brothers in arms who rule according to virtue, whilst the masses just want something to worship that can appeal to their lower level, emotional and day to day considerations, a cosmology that applies to their laborious lifestyle that serves to keep their civilization fertile with resources and most importantly of all, find mastery within their rank, even if lowly, as a means to attain and participate in the order of the universe which has been bestowed upon them by above.

When a society is able to have an organic distribution of the two forms of religion as stated above, where they compliment eachother for attaining a common order for an entire civilization, you can count on that civilization to expand and find resistance to exogenous cults, and it will likely fight more unitedly against enemy civilizations during times of conflict. Civilizations lapse in and out of this clear conscience of organic order. During times in which they are triumphant against their enemies, I recommend an analysis of their religious society, how united it is, what themes it appeals to which would lead it to perform well in leadership and battle as a supra-political force. Good examples are the unity of Charlemagne's knights in carving and sowing the seeds for a new Rome, to be lead by the Germanic races this time, or in the unity of the Muslims against the Crusaders under Saladin (but lets not forget that the Crusaders too were extremely united in this enterprise, a suprapolitical force trying to capture the kingdom of heaven for all of Christendom instead of battling eachother in Europe as they had done for centuries after the fall of Rome). It appears, at least to me, that this is the kind of unity that was achieved by Urartians against the Assyrians time and time again, and it needs to be investigated more closely.

Also, regarding the topic of discussion, I'd like to ask bell if the Zodiac has come up at all in Urartian ritual sites, this to me is a very important point in determining where Urartian cosmology stands with respect to its neighbouring southern Semitic religions, the Indo-European Zodiacs, or with early, allegedly prototype forms of the Zodiac which are claimed to have originated from sites such as Metsamor in Armenia itself.

[hrai]

Re: Urartu-Religion

I've got scans of some recent books about Urartu that I'll look at. But there isn't a lot known for certain, and much of what Urartian religion consisted of is a mystery. None of the books seem to address the obvious (obvious from the archaeological remains) fact that what the Urartians believed was underground was an important aspect to their religion. The artificial "doors" they carved in cliff faces seem to have been considered by them to be real doors, through which they could access certain gods, and many sites have long, ceremonial passages, or staircases, or vertical shafts that often descend deep underground.

Bell, this is a subject which fascinates me and unfortunately time doesn't allow too much research at present. So, could you please list the book titles you refer to above?
Appreciate it, thanks.
jgk3, I'd appreciate anything you have too as you seem quite well up on this.