Question on genetics

[jgk3]

Re: Question on genetics

It really depends how you choose to look at it.

Because the Muslim populations in Anatolia were by nature less (or not at all) restrictive of marriages with Muslim Central Asian and Muslim Middle Eastern traders, administrators and soldiers, then of course those genetic interminglings will show up in a higher percentage of the population than they do with Armenians, who were a center of Christianity in the region that was highly differentiated socially from other ethnic groups, with its own hierarchy and religious community. But, because Azeris, Turks and Armenians share a common sub-stratum of genes which dates back thousands of years in Anatolia, these similarities do make us quite similar genetically. The differences between us are recent, and our similarities are old.

Another issue is the question of how homogenous "Turks", "Azeris" and "Armenians" are as ethnic groups. Are they of equal level of genetic homogeneity, or is there more variation in the makeup of one group than with another?

[ayrudzi]

Re: Question on genetics

I was looking at the sight more closely, and it states that Azeris have a significant amount of middleeastern/northafrican dna also 15% of their population is stated as having "other" which when I read the fine print genes from Asia will be stated in the "other" category. The fine print also noted that Turkey has the highest dna from Asia as well. So We are not that close genetically with the Azeris after all. Even though there are many turkofied Caucasians and Persians, there is a large part of their dna that still holds to their foreign origins.

[jgk3]

Re: Question on genetics

I really like the sense this post makes.

It's pretty obvious that our genes will be similar to the people who we have lived next throughout the ages. Georgians, Azeris, Turks, and maybe Kurds as well will all share close similarities to us. And you make a good point, mountainous folks do not admixture as much because of the geography. In comparison to other groups of people, Armenians have been on the low side when it comes to admixture, some of it can be explained by our geography.

I'm not dismayed buddy, on the contrary i think the similarities can be used to bring peace in the region. We have extremist Armenians and Azeris, who think their people are unique in this world, and vilify one another in the most extreme ways possible.

It feels good when people agree with what I have to say :P

Ayrudzi, having common genes imo has never resulted in people getting along. Ever heard of family feuds?

Conflict between two groups will breed feelings of uniqueness. Of course we might have unique cultures, different from the rest in important ways, but rather than enriching and celebrating these, when we are at war we freeze them so that they can become consolidated as a kind of dogma to indoctrinate violence, everything enjoyable about our culture suddenly becomes exalted as something precious that needs to be defended by force of arms.

And regarding extremism, when a population is scared of being attacked, their fight or flight instinct kicks in and extreme actions cease to feel as extreme as they did during times of peace. If you want to minimize extremism, I think you have to maximize feelings of safety and security in the hearts of the people, so that when they think of the future, they imagine good things.

[ayrudzi]

Re: Question on genetics

When 1. being Armenian is based upon religion and language, and
2. being Azeri is based upon religion and language, and
3. these peoples had significant population exchanges in newly created independent republics.

Then having similar genes is not that shocking.

Jesus is not enough to make your genes different from Azeris, nor is learning how to say Hayr Mer from a young age.

Being an Artsakhtsi on the otherhand, is enough to make your genes different both from mainstream Armenians and mainstream Azeris. Why? Because the mountaineers did not mingle so much with all the other folks who tilled the land or travel around the highland. The latter group (mainstream Eastern Anatolians) for thousands of years changed religions and ethnic affinities periodically, and essentially mingled relatively more than isolated mountaneers, so that whatever new mutations they had were diffused very readily with a larger segment of the world's population (i.e. the haplogroup percentage ranges we share in common with Azeris and Turks), whereas the mountaineers did not, so their mutations did not diffuse readily with everyone elses, nor did they receive the new mutations spreading around Anatolia at a comparable rate, which means they have haplogroup percentage ranges that are more archaic, meaning that you would have to go back in time to find those percentage ranges as part of what was mainstream in Anatolia, because since that time, lots of things have changed everywhere, except up in the mountains.

Thus my suggestion to you (if you are dismayed by our similar genes to Azeris): go find a mountain, deport all the Armenians there, and live there for 5000 years. That will do the trick.

I'm not dismayed buddy, on the contrary i think the similarities can be used to bring peace in the region. We have extremist Armenians and Azeris, who think their people are unique in this world, and vilify one another in the most extreme ways possible.

[hrai]

Re: Question on genetics

When 1. being Armenian is based upon religion and language, and
2. being Azeri is based upon religion and language, and
3. these peoples had significant population exchanges in newly created independent republics.

Then having similar genes is not that shocking.

Jesus is not enough to make your genes different from Azeris, nor is learning how to say Hayr Mer from a young age.

Being an Artsakhtsi on the otherhand, is enough to make your genes different both from mainstream Armenians and mainstream Azeris. Why? Because the mountaineers did not mingle so much with all the other folks who tilled the land or travel around the highland. The latter group (mainstream Eastern Anatolians) for thousands of years changed religions and ethnic affinities periodically, and essentially mingled relatively more than isolated mountaneers, so that whatever new mutations they had were diffused very readily with a larger segment of the world's population (i.e. the haplogroup percentage ranges we share in common with Azeris and Turks), whereas the mountaineers did not, so their mutations did not diffuse readily with everyone elses, nor did they receive the new mutations spreading around Anatolia at a comparable rate, which means they have haplogroup percentage ranges that are more archaic, meaning that you would have to go back in time to find those percentage ranges as part of what was mainstream in Anatolia, because since that time, lots of things have changed everywhere, except up in the mountains.

Thus my suggestion to you (if you are dismayed by our similar genes to Azeris): go find a mountain, deport all the Armenians there, and live there for 5000 years. That will do the trick.

I really like the sense this post makes.

[Mos]

Re: Question on genetics

It's pretty obvious that our genes will be similar to the people who we have lived next throughout the ages. Georgians, Azeris, Turks, and maybe Kurds as well will all share close similarities to us. And you make a good point, mountainous folks do not admixture as much because of the geography. In comparison to other groups of people, Armenians have been on the low side when it comes to admixture, some of it can be explained by our geography.

[jgk3]

Re: Question on genetics

When 1. being Armenian is based upon religion and language, and
2. being Azeri is based upon religion and language, and
3. these peoples had significant population exchanges in newly created independent republics.

Then having similar genes is not that shocking.

Jesus is not enough to make your genes different from Azeris, nor is learning how to say Hayr Mer from a young age.

Being an Artsakhtsi on the otherhand, is enough to make your genes different both from mainstream Armenians and mainstream Azeris. Why? Because the mountaineers did not mingle so much with all the other folks who tilled the land or travel around the highland. The latter group (mainstream Eastern Anatolians) for thousands of years changed religions and ethnic affinities periodically, and essentially mingled relatively more than isolated mountaneers, so that whatever new mutations they had were diffused very readily with a larger segment of the world's population (i.e. the haplogroup percentage ranges we share in common with Azeris and Turks), whereas the mountaineers did not, so their mutations did not diffuse readily with everyone elses, nor did they receive the new mutations spreading around Anatolia at a comparable rate, which means they have haplogroup percentage ranges that are more archaic, meaning that you would have to go back in time to find those percentage ranges as part of what was mainstream in Anatolia, because since that time, lots of things have changed everywhere, except up in the mountains.

Thus my suggestion to you (if you are dismayed by our similar genes to Azeris): go find a mountain, deport all the Armenians there, and live there for 5000 years. That will do the trick.

[retro]

Re: Question on genetics

well dna does not show azeris being mostly turkified iranians. It shows them being mostly J2 which is native to southern armenian highlands and northern mesopotamia G which is native to the caucasus, and R1b which is native to the ancient Hittietes and Armenian highlands/

Iranians have a lot of R1A which is Indo Aryan gene plus some G the native caucasian, and some J2 they do not have a significant amount of R1b which is the native indo european gene that armenians have. so again speaking strickly with genetics it is a puzzling delima

J2 is associated with spread of agriculture from the fertile crescent during the neolithic expansion. Azeris aren't Turko-Iranic peoples like the Uzbeks and whilst R1a is a Indo-Iranian/Central Asian marker it's not Indo-Aryan. Not all Indo-European peoples are Eurasiatic European/Central Asian or South Asian types and the Armenians, Persians and Greeks are all decended from ancient Near Eastern peoples.

However in the past, Persia was far more Indo-Iranian than it is today and it's only the Shia/Sunni divide that keeps the Indo-Iranians out. Turkic and Hunnic peoples are by no means removed from Indo-Iranians and Uralics. The Bolsheviks discriminated against Tajikistan in favour of Uzbekistan, during the Soviet era. Which is part of the reason, why Tajik-Uzbek relations are always seemingly under strain. Even though, Tajiks and Uzbeks actually have quite a lot in common with each other.

Azeris are a mix of Turkified-Persians and assorted, Central Asians. Anatolians, Caucasians and Persians are Western Asians and they have ancient ties to one another. Armenians and Assyrians are fairly closely related and as you point out they have Western Indo-European, ancestry. The Indo-Aryans are people like the Kalash, Chitral and Nuristanis in Asia. They are genetically distinct and have Western Eurasian and Indic ancestry.

[ayrudzi]

Re: Question on genetics

All I can say is that ancient Azeri roots are from this area (Azerbaijani northern province of Iran).....Turks are not. Sorry cant be much help.

Yes. That is why I think there is another way to defeat this "turkish" treat that we face. Instead of calling them mongols and tatars (which genetics show it is almost non existant in them) we should through information DETURKIFY them. I think once this people relize they are not turic, but only turkifyed they will lose that animosity they hold against us

[Eddo211]

Re: Question on genetics

All I can say is that ancient Azeri roots are from this area (Azerbaijani northern province of Iran).....Turks are not. Sorry cant be much help.