Armenian and Hindi/Urdu

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian and Hindi/Urdu

- "gadou" in Armenian and "chat" in French or "gato" in Spanish

Kedi in Turkish.

[Siamanto]

Re: Armenian and Hindi/Urdu

This is preposterous... Ar-me-ni refers to land of the people of Ara. It has nothing to do with German. Besides, the phonetical relationship between K and H is non-existant in Armenian.

First of all, 'g', 'k', 'h' belong to the phonetic group not linguistic. Thus, they transcend the boundaries of a given language and, usually, pertain to a family of languages.
Second of all, it was about Old Latin and "Latin Languages." It was not about Armenian!!!!!
Third of all, "German" - like "Armenian" - does not denote a racial entity; it denotes a group of racial entities, just like "barbarian" did in Ancient Greece. Germans don't call themselves as such, Armenians don't.

Most of all, if the appellation "Armenian" is of Armenian origin then why we don't we call ourselves "Armenian?" Only others have called us such.

I remember reading a couple of other theories that would like to see "Armenian" of an Armenian origin.
As for "Ar-me-ni" referring to the "land of the people of Ara," can you please provide more detailed explanations and justifications? Thanks.

Speaking of phonetical grounds, I'd say in this respect, Armenian is closest to Greek and Sanskrit, due to the fact that they stayed together in the Indo-European homeland longer (1000-2000 years) than the groups that branched off to migrate Europe, Tocharia, etc...

I would agree that Armenian is probably very close to Greek; I would even bet that it's closer to Greek than Latin. But is it close enough to Sanskrit - even krapar??????
Not knowing neither Greek nor Sanskrit, while knowing many "Latin Languages" - as I defined it above - I have limited myself to what I know. In fact, I have said:

Is Armenian closer to Sanskrit than to Latin? I certainly cannot answer the question; I know more than one language derived from the Latin, but I don't know Hindi or Sanskrit.

Do you know Greek or Sanskrit? Do you know of a comparative study that analyzes the similarities of Armenian with Sanskrit, Greek and Latin? Or a series of one-to-one comparisons that are "comparable" enough i.e. based on similar enough criteria?

As for jumping from the linguistic similarities to a "migration path," it is a bit "imaginative."

During this time, they developped phonetic transformations that eased the tension of many words and made them flow more fluently. Voiceless letters (T, K, P1, P2) for many basic words were transformed into semi-voiced ones (D, G, B1, *Ph-H2). The onset of such transformations must've been started by the Kartvelian speaking cultures intermingling with the Indo-European cultures... The Kartvelian languages are known for their rich phonetical variations... In Armenian, this is undeniably present too, an example being the P, Pb and B letters of our Alphabet (although they're more actively put into practice by the Eastern Dialect speakers, who by the way, sound sort of similar to Sanskrit language speakers due to that "fluent phenomenon" of semi-voiced letters)

*For example, the word for Father in Armenian is Hayr, while the one in French is Pere... Armenian followed the transformation for the P to a Ph, and later to a H. Although not necessarily related to the same event of phonetic transformation as the Greek, Armenian and Indo-Aryan (Indic, Iranian) group, English Father must've followed the same P-Ph transformation. It's curious to see some German family names starting with "Pf" (pronounced Ph), showing the transformation in Germanic languages in such an obvious context. Again, the Germanic phonetical transformations seem to be unrelated to the aforementioned groups.

First of all, phonetic transformations did not occur in such a methodic and consistent manner. In your example, Armenian have kept the 'h' while the French the 'p', while in others it's the other way around. For example, "pour" in Armenian is "horno" is Spanish and "four" in Armenian.
While specialist tend to agree that "father" is of Persian origin, "pour" is close to the Latin "furnus" and the Greek "formus."
I have spent a lot of time comparing and analyzing such phonetic transformations - or simply lexical transliterations - and I couldn't find simple rules as you seem to suggest.

Second of all, "German" and "Armenian" are meant to be of Latin origin, so why insist on comparing the Armenian and German languages and state:
"Again, the Germanic phonetical transformations seem to be unrelated to the aforementioned groups."

Anyhow, when compared vocabulary with Indo-European groups, and even non-Indo-European groups, you're bound to find some similarities, but just because you find them in latin, doesn't mean you can't find their Sanskrit reflexes still standing today.

Not knowing neither Greek nor Sanskrit, while knowing many "Latin Languages" - as I defined it above - I have limited myself to what I know. In fact, I have said:

Is Armenian closer to Sanskrit than to Latin? I certainly cannot answer the question; I know more than one language derived from the Latin, but I don't know Hindi or Sanskrit.

Although I'm not too in touch with the basic Indo-European vocabularies of Sanskrit or Greek, I'd have to go with a hunch that they are closer to Armenian than other European languages.

I would agree for the Greek, but would seriously doubt for the Sanskrit.

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian and Hindi/Urdu

The 1,2,3,4, etc., decimal numerical system originated in India, in sanskrit. But I don't know if the actual words "one", "two", "three", etc., and their varients in other European languages originally came from there. A quick glance at a dictionary tells me that "four" and "ten" did though.

I don't remember the actual words he spoke, but this dude was counting from 1-10 in Punjabi and all of them had a reflex in Armenian, including the one for Meg.

For Armenian Erkou, the Erk is a phonetical transformation exclusive to our language, where the d becomes Erk, it can also be found in Erkan (long), which in Greek is apparently "Douan" or something of the likes of it. Don't ask me how we got an Erk form a d(o), but we did.

I'm not sure how it works for Yerek, but if I remember correctly, there was a Punjabi reflex closer to the Armenian word for 3 than a latin or Germanic one.

[Siamanto]

Re: Armenian and Hindi/Urdu

Very few things are of turkish origin, the "khazukh" maybe.

chojukh is of turkish origin :P

Yes, the *urkish influence on Armenian is at most minimal.
I know that both "khazukh" or "chojukh" are used in *urkish; but are they of *urkic origin? Do you know? Most of the *urkish vocabulary is either Arabic or Persian.

Kedi in Turkish.

Do you have point or simply building a Straw Man, as usual?
There exists other words used by the *urks common with European languages. Most of their vocabulary is borrowed.



Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations!


Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations!

[Siamanto]

Re: Armenian and Hindi/Urdu

A quick glance at a dictionary tells me that "four" and "ten" did though.

Did...or may? "A quick glance at a dictionary tells me that 'four' and 'ten'" may have another origin i.e. Latin or...Armenian!!!!!!!

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian and Hindi/Urdu

concerning the Ar-me-ni thing, you can consult the thread just below ours, the Armenian indo-european element thing... The user "Armenian" contributed some very informative excerpts from books that take the Armenian point of view concerning the origins of Indo-Europeans and Armenians. You can find these on the second page I believe, where he starts to post consecutive exerpts.

I'll make it short and sweet though... Ar-me-ni was a discriptive term for our people, made originally by the Assyrians and later adopted by other groups. We called ourselves Hye, people of Hayk, who was our chief god, while Ara was of secondary importance.

For the phonetic grounds, I understand the confusion the theory brings, so I won't discuss it further.

I have come across several Sanskrit words being related to other Indo-European languages in my book "In Search for the Indo-Europeans", and although Armenian isn't often included (due to the background of the author, who doesn't focus too much on the Armenian issue, and holds the homeland to be in the Pontic Steppe rather than the Armenian highlands (something I also believed in after reading the book, until the user "Armenian" decided to share his point of view), I've found that Sanskrit holds several archaisms that show reflexes in Armenian (and continue into Greek) but not in any other language, as well as several archaisms that show reflexes in Baltic languages but not in any other language, but most importantly, they show close reflexes in Iranian languages (which is pretty logical, considered they both branched off from the same subgroup).

When I have the opportunity, I'll look for examples, but for now, I don't have my book next to me. But off the top of my head, the Armenian word for male, "Ayr", is found in Sanskrit as Arya, and means noble. It also seems to show a reflex in Greek, Aristo, like in Aristotle, which also means noble, and was adopted into English to be used in words like Aristocracy...

Over time, meanings change, this is an important fact. Names for a specific species of fish in some languages turn out to be the noun for fish itself in others... You must defeat such obstacles when comparing vocabulary, but mustn't go too far by leaving too many possibilities open.

An interesting question now, is: Is Armenian "Ayr" related to Sanskrit Arya based on what I just told you?

I don't know the answer, but I'd like to see your take on the matter before we proceed.

[bookmaker]

Re: Armenian and Hindi/Urdu

For some reason there are some very peculiar similarities between Armenian and Hindi/Urdu. For example, our numbers. Both in Armenian and Hindi, ten is "tas" and thousand is "hazar". There are other small similarities between eight: "oot" (Arm) and "aat" (Hindi) and four: "chors" (Arm) and "char" (Hindi).
Then there are other smaller similarities like "yar", "ha" (slang for yes). Are these similarities relatively modern or is there an Armenian link to Sanscrit. Probably former, but why are our numbers less similar to say Farsi or Greek or Arabic than to Hindi? But then again is the Sanscrit link, which would have to be a quite ancient link, part of any theory of Armenian origins?

I think we must discuss very classified and clandestine topics.Im turk,but nowadays Im very anxious about KARABAG negotiations between armenian foreign minister and his azeri counterpart,do you keep track of these talking?its very important for me.do you think that armenian side will make comprimise and retreat from occupied(karabag)region for the sake of agreeing with azeris?what can you say about it?Im partially armenian origin boy.armenian officials must not betray their country,how about?I think armenian side is eager to make comprimise for agreement.how about?I wait your reply about this!!!see you.bye....

[TomServo]

Re: Armenian and Hindi/Urdu

I think we must discuss very classified and clandestine topics.Im turk,but nowadays Im very anxious about KARABAG negotiations between armenian foreign minister and his azeri counterpart,do you keep track of these talking?its very important for me.do you think that armenian side will make comprimise and retreat from occupied(karabag)region for the sake of agreeing with azeris?what can you say about it?Im partially armenian origin boy.armenian officials must not betray their country,how about?I think armenian side is eager to make comprimise for agreement.how about?I wait your reply about this!!!see you.bye....

Bend It Like Beckham!

[bookmaker]

Re: Armenian and Hindi/Urdu

It Means Armenaian People Are Not Noble Pure Nation.....how About?you Yourself Confessed It.....hahahahaha

[TomServo]

Re: Armenian and Hindi/Urdu

It Means Armenaian People Are Not Noble Pure Nation.....how About?you Yourself Confessed It.....hahahahaha

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