Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

No one here was discussing the 'degree' of national 'unity' of ancient Armenians. You are basically nitpicking for no apparent reason. Armenians, as a unified national identity, emerged during the Urartian period. Prior to that period Armenians, per say, were essentially proto-Armenians.

That was exactly my point. The 'degree of national unity' wasn't being discussed, but you mentioned earlier in this thread that Urartians are Armenians, maybe even more Armenian than Armenians living today (your words). I don't like nitpicking, but when you make general statements like that about our history, it prompts me to reply. I thought you were trying to twist around history, but your additional comments have shown me that our views are more or less the same. And yes, the Armenian ethnogenesis was happening during the Urartian period, and before that the tribes were essentially proto-Armenians, and their culture was basically passed down to us. Just as there were related tribes inhabiting different parts of the Armenian Highland in ancient times, in modern times Armenians still have their local "tribes" (Marashtsis, Sassountsis, etc), but they are all Armenian. So even at a basic level we see similarities between today's Armenians and the proto-Armenians which inhabited the Armenian Highland in ancient times.

Btw, you still haven't replied about the point I made about the Urartians not adopting any aspects of the Armenian language (since you claimed Urartian language was related to Armenian).

[SaroukhSako]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

do you know "miayn zenkov ga hayots pergoutioun" did to our people,not just our people to the history even it changed many things when armenians became aware of their problem.and the solution was : baykar.and in the second world war we took every opportunity to save our country ad take it back from every foreign power being turk iranian russian georgian and azeri,to form united independent free armenia. the extent that we even called ourselves aryans was just to retake armenian prisoners of the red army from the hands of germany and we did form new armies with them to attack the turks. I am armenian just plain armenian not aryannindo-eublablabla Armenian and proud of it.

[Legionary]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

read the articles about Armenian heavy cavalry and armenian legions in http://www.armenian-history.com/

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

'Legality' has to do on whether you have the power to enforce your demands. Steal a car, you are thief, steal billions, you are a businessman. If Armenia were strong enough, the treaty would be legal.

[Artsakh]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

So treaty of sevres is still leagal and we can use this to demand those lands from the turks. at an international court of law we could get those lands back

Of course the treaty of sevres is still legal. However, if the Turks can counter our claims by bringing up the treaty of Lausanne, then there is no debate whatsoever with regards to Kars and Ardahan. Legally, kars and ardahan are armenian territory in accordance with international law.

in other words, these territories, and that designated to armenians under the treaty of sevres are in our back pockets. However, the problem is, ONLY A STRONG ARMENIA CAN PURSUE THE ISSUE OF THESE LANDS. By strong Armenia, i mean an armenia where the people have descent jobs, there is a population growth, and Armenia is economically on its feet so Armenians from the whole world can go back and built our homeland. Once we establish a country based on the rule of law in our current republic, everything will fall into place, armenia can take the land claims to international courts.

these lands are already in our back pockets. however, its up to us to fix our current republic so that we can do something about our lost lands.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

So treaty of sevres is still leagal and we can use this to demand those lands from the turks. at an international court of law we could get those lands back

[Artsakh]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

Wait!!! I don't understand so this 50% of land we lost in 1920.... We don't legally have claims to it now present day? Can someone please show me a map of the land we should have right now legally?

Following the brilliant military victory against the Turks at Sardarabat, the brilliant dashnak politicians let the Turks dictate the terms of Armenia's independence with the Treaty of Batum in June of 1918. Armenians were left with a territory of 4,500 sq. miles of rock and dirt. Armenia was completely surrounded by a Turkish sea. This map roughtly corresponds to the sad state Armenians were in:
http://www.travel-images.com/az-adr-1920.jpg


later on, Armenians were able to recapture lost territories. here's the map:
http://www.24april1915.com/eng/image...of_Borders.jpg

Do NOT count the treat of sevres territory. We roughly extended our territories to include kars, ardahan, nakhijevan, and zangezure. roughly 70,000 sq km.

the treaty of alexandrople was signed in june of 1920, giving up kars, ardahan, and nakhijevan. the infamous treaty of alexandrople was signed by Alexander Khatisian.

However, this treaty of alexandrople was and IS illegal. Today, armenia has all legal rights to demand back kars and ardahan. Legally, in accordance with today's international law, kars and ardahan are Armenian territory.

that is precisely why when armenia gained its independence from USSR, the first thing turkey did was ask armenia to confirm the treaty. Armenia refused. And armenia refused this under the rule of Levon der petrosyan.

[Armenian]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

No offense, but most of what you said has nothing to do with what I was discussing...

No offense, but most of what you said has nothing to do with what I was discussing either.

No one here was discussing the 'degree' of national 'unity' of ancient Armenians. You are basically nitpicking for no apparent reason. Armenians, as a unified national identity, emerged during the Urartian period. Prior to that period Armenians, per say, were essentially proto-Armenians. And there was no tribe called "Armens" that 'migrated' into the Anatolian highlands, that is pure western derived fantasy. Urartians most probably spoke a version of Hurrian. Hurrian were natives of the region who spoke a Caucasian tongue and Hurrians are one of the two major branches of the Armenian nation, the other being Aryan.

The name "Hai" is linguistically connected to the name "Khaldi" and Khaldi was the supreme God of the Hurrrians - and interestingly enough of the Urartians. The term Ar-men, however, is most probably an Indo-European term and its root word "Ar" is linguistically connected with a supreme Aryan God called "Ar" or Ara.

Thus, no matter how one looks at it, the two names of our nation, the two natures of our language, the two environments of our origins, they are all rooted in two primary locations within the Asia Minor - Anatolia and the Caucasus, Aryans and Caucasians.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

Many places in the world had city states or kingdoms, a few examples are Spain, Greece, Britain, and China. The names the Hayk are called is from mouths of odars, we have been called many things. Today the Hayk people and nations (Armenia) has two countries. Hayk and RMK. When we regain Western Armenia and our other lands, they may or may not be one counrty. Lets hope they all become one and that one is called Hayk. After all we do call ourselves Hay.

* On December 10, 1991, Nagorno-Karabagh held an independence referendum in which 82% of all voters participated, and 99% voted for independence.

* On January 6, 1992, the leaders of Nagorno-Karabagh declared independence as the Republic of Mountainous Karabagh (RMK).

Just some thoughts. Armenians, united we stand, devided we fall.
Lets learn from each other.

Respectfuly

Avak

PS: I think Enker Armenian is correct. I am impressed by his knowledge of history and many other thinks.

No offense, but most of what you said has nothing to do with what I was discussing. You're discussing today's situation (which I was aware of), I'm talking about 7 or 8 centuries before Christ. We're essentially talking about 2 completely different worlds.

Other countries had city-states... well, those city-states, like the ones on the Armenian plateau, were not unified in their early years, and they evolved to become what we now know as Greece, Spain, China, etc. That was my whole point from the get-go.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

Wait!!! I don't understand so this 50% of land we lost in 1920.... We don't legally have claims to it now present day? Can someone please show me a map of the land we should have right now legally?

His source is wiki so I don't trust it very much. If he can show a other source than I believe it till then. And I have read somewhere that there is a lawyer around who's saying we can use the treaty of Sèvres to get our lands back