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"Harsh reality" (HR) or "Armenian National Interest"(ANI)???

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  • #71
    Re: "Harsh reality" (HR) or "Armenian National Interest"(ANI)???

    Here is another example of a diasporan Armenian who has successfully repatriated to Artsakh:

    Diaspora Armenians in Artsakh

    Jirayr Shahichanyan considers himself to be a successful businessman in Karabakh although he confesses his earnings aren’t that great. Jirayr, a 34 year-old Armenian from the Iranian city of Isphahan, first set foot in Karabakh in 1996 after completing his compulsory military service.

    After spending a few months in Karabakh he returned to Iran. In 1999 he moved to Karabakh with the intent to permanently resettle there.

    He belonged to various ARF youth groups in Isphahan and this upbringing probably led him to Artsakh in the first place. Jirayr himself confirms that he came to Karabakh motivated by a sense of patriotism.

    From the outset he began work to more effectively organize the running of ARF youth and student groups in Artsakh and later on was employed at the ARF political office in Stepanakert.

    This Iranian-Armenian repatriate started to raise a family in Artsakh and still works in the city of Stepanakert, keeping busy with political party and social matters. At the same time he began to take steps to start a small business as well.

    Jirayr and a few friends opened the “Khariskh” (Anchor) coffeehouse and bar on Azatamardikneri Street in the center of Stepanakert. Jirayr states, “We began construction of the building in 2002 and in May 2006 the doors opened for business. My partners and I do receive some profit from the business. True, you can say it’s not much but at least we’re not operating at a loss.”

    According to Jirayr, there is no comparison when it comes to the conditions that exist for starting a business in Iran and Karabakh. Unlike Karabakh, in Iran the preconditions necessary to develop small and medium size business exist. In Iran, for example, there is much less bureaucratic red tape since they’re mainly keeping a close watch on large-scale enterprises. In his estimation there is much too much red tape to deal with in Karabakh, while at the same time confessing that a certain degree of official oversight of business is needed.

    Jirayr notes that, “When it comes to the legal statutes in Karabakh, matters are gradually improving even though I confess that shortcomings still exist. In general, conditions to start a business here are normal. If you operate within the parameters of the law then you won’t encounter any difficulties. Personally, I’ve never felt the necessity to have someone ‘backing’ me up, which they say one must have to do business here.”

    Continuing his discussion about the people of Karabakh, Jirayr also made mention of their hospitality, a factor that can motivate more Armenians from the Diaspora to harbor the desire to resettle here. However the government must do its part to facilitate resettlement from the Diaspora. Jirayr says that when he talks about the governement granting certain allowances to Diaspora-Armenians, “I’m not at all talking about tax allowances. I believe there should be equal conditions for all. What I’m referring to the necessity of special citizenship and residency regulations for those from the Diaspora.” Jirayr himself doesn’t have Karabakh citizenship but rather the status of an immigrant and that on a temporary basis.

    Jirayr believes that special citizenship allowances, coupled with the warm hospitality with which the people of Karabakh welcome those from abroad, will motivate more young Diaspora-Armenians to resettle here. As Jirayr stresses, “Passport registration and citizenship are like a honorary diploma for me. What’s important is how you are received by the people her. Due to their welcoming behavior one becomes more deeply attached to the land and to the people. You start to walk proudly, with your head held high, as if you too are a guardian of the country. As for all other issues, in time, they too will be resolved.”

    Jirayr’s wife, Yerazik, confirms that they’ve never talked about relocating to Iran. “ We had already decided to return to Karabakh even before our wedding in Isphahan. I remember well how uneasy I felt until we purchased our tickets. At the time we didn’t yet have a business here and Jirayr was unemployed. It felt like we just might wind up staying there. But I was frightened at the prospect of leaving Karabakh behind. I still was serving in the army and some feeling of duty prompted me to stay. After that the matter has never again come up.”

    Stepanakert

    Last edited by Lernakan; 01-26-2008, 05:01 AM.

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    • #72
      Re: "Harsh reality" (HR) or "Armenian National Interest"(ANI)???

      Originally posted by Armenian View Post
      Amrotz, while generally speaking I agree with your statement we must remember that the British (English, Scottish, Irish) are just as much victims of their financial/political elite as anyone else. There is an unseen elite that runs the UK, let's not confuse them with the average folk. The British elite have simply done everything in their power to secure their wealth and power, even to the detriment of other peoples, as all wealthy and powerful entities have done throughout history. Regarding racism, Britain is one of the most pluralistic/egalitarian societies on earth and has been for a long time. Relatively speaking, this was a fundamental reason why the British were able to set up colonies around the world without much blood spilling, unlike the Spaniards, Germans, Russian, Japanese, French, etc... The average Russian, German, French, Spaniard and Japanese are much more "racist" and violently more so than the average British. The British form of racism is namely their chauvinistic and supremest attitudes which are in essence traits derived from their past empire which ruled over third world savages for some time. However, their unique 'traits' have no weight when compared to other cultured/civilized nations, especially in Europe. In other words, the British were only able to feel "superior" in third world/primitive environments. Also note that the egalitarian and multicultural nature of British and American societies, along with some geopolitical factors, were one of main the reasons why the world has recently chosen English as its common language. So, let's please put these things in perspective.
      Armenian jan, somehow I didn't reply to your above post.

      I was not referring to the British, I meant only the English. Others in Britain (Scots, Welsh and Irish) IMO are not like the English at all. While I agree with you about the “unseen elite that runs the UK” and the rest of your statement regarding the average English folk being the victims of this elite just like any other nation on Earth, I disagree with you about Britain being “one of the most pluralistic/egalitarian societies on earth” and the rest of your post regarding their racism.

      English are conquering manipulators and exploiters of others, and I can’t compare them to some of the nations you have mentioned, especially to Russians and Germans, who only fought to secure their natural, ethnic borders against some of their neighbors. Russians did it against Scandinavians in the North and against Iran in the South, while Germans had the same issues with Poles and French. English, on the other hand, just like the Turks, left their native lands and went far and wide on an international rampage that lasted for centuries and resulted in sufferings for many nations. Former used the ocean, the latter used the land but essentially they did the same thing: Divide and rule. Their religions (Anglicanism and Turkish Sunni Islam) lack depth and genuineness and are not true Christian and Muslim religions but merely a vessel to carry them to their destination, a disguise for their intentions, and a justification for their deeds. Neither Russians nor Germans expect from their migrants to be so absorbed, and at the end assimilated as do the English expect from their migrants. And when English encounter hard cases like the Pakistanis they make them suffer by severely limiting their opportunities thus creating second class citizens. If the Germans were racist they would never let Turks live in peace in Germany while they openly staying Turkish. Quite frankly Germans are most definitely not a racist nation. As for the Russians then I have to say that there is racism in today’s Russia but there won’t be any in tomorrow’s one because Russian racism has economical reasons, and their economy is slowly but steadily getting out of the chaos.

      I believe the fundamental reason why Germans and Russians are not racist while English and Turks are, is the fact that neither Germans nor Russians are occupying someone elses lands like the Turks and the English do. When you occupy and destroy the original cultures and civilizations you basically have to have everyone dancing to your own tune in order to legitimize your conquests and make them successful.
      Last edited by HayotzAmrotz; 01-27-2008, 06:52 PM.

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      • #73
        Re: "Harsh reality" (HR) or "Armenian National Interest"(ANI)???

        Originally posted by HayotzAmrotz View Post
        Armenian jan, somehow I didn't reply to your above post.
        Aper, harts chka: Yes el kartsumeyi vor du liovin hamadzayn eyir im het...

        I was not referring to the British, I meant only the English. Others in Britain (Scots, Welsh and Irish) IMO are not like the English at all.
        After all these centuries, is there really that much difference between them? From a distance they all seem very similar. From what I have been able to observe, I have not seen widespread racism within modern British/English folk. By the way, are we discussing English 'nationalism' or 'racism'? The two are very different things. One is a genetic factor the other, cultural. If you are referring to genetic/racist pride, how could a Brit be racist towards other Caucasian/whites? If you are referring to cultural/national chauvinism, I don't blame them. Hey, look at us Amrotz, we are discussing these topics in "English" and not in Armenian. Had the English adopted the Armenian language for their communications purposes would we Armenians not have been chauvinistic? Due to America's geopolitical global primacy, the English language rules the world today. Do you know how easy it is for the average Brit to travel the world these days?

        Anyway, I sense that you may have had some bad experiences with them.

        While I agree with you about the “unseen elite that runs the UK” and the rest of your statement regarding the average English folk being the victims of this elite just like any other nation on Earth, I disagree with you about Britain being “one of the most pluralistic/egalitarian societies on earth” and the rest of your post regarding their racism.
        From what I see, Britain is one of the most pluralistic societies in the western world. Just look at them, they are all a bunch of multi-cultural foo-foos. They are feminized and liberalized beyond recognition. London is now being called Londonistan. Genetically, most British are mutts, a mix of English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish, of course with strong genetic influences from Normandy and Scandinavia as well. What's more, the island nation now has a very large Asian/Islamic/African population. And it is being said that in a few years the most popular name for male infants in Britain will be Mohammad. So, where is their racism/nationalistic pride?

        English are conquering manipulators and exploiters of others, and I can’t compare them to some of the nations you have mentioned, especially to Russians and Germans, who only fought to secure their natural, ethnic borders against some of their neighbors.
        They did whatever they needed to do in order to become powerful and wealthy. I say good for them. As a result, they were the most successful capitalists. While continental Europeans was busy butchering each other due to territorial disputes, the island dwelling British were traveling the world in search of wealth. And in quest for wealth they did all they could do to obtain it. That is natural, its the law of nature. I wish we Armenians learned this lesson as well. And when did ethics/morality become an issue in politics or nation building?

        I think the situation regarding the Brits has to do with the nature of geopolitics. Being islanders they naturally had to go overseas to seek wealth/plunder. The French, Americans, Spanish, Arabs, Portuguese, Japanese, Dutch and Russians have done similar, and much worst in my opinion. Let me remind you that Russians are a people that originated/evolved west of the Urals. Now they rub shoulders with Americans in Alaska, and not too long ago they were literally running the show in Armenia. Look at what desert dwelling Arabs were able to do in such a short period of time, they were able to conquer from Spain to Iran. Look at the Spaniards and what they did in south America and elsewhere. These occupations happened through militarily/bloody conquering of various nations.

        The 'only' civilized people that the English have been able to successfully conquer 'militarily' have been the Celts. What civilized/major nation did Britain militarily conquer? The answer is, none. Contrary to popular belief, the British did not militarily conquer India. The French, the Dutch, the Italians, the Portuguese, the Spaniards, the Persians, the Arabs, etc., were in India first. During the 15-16 centuries the British set up trading colonies there as well. However, as the presence of the other Europeans powers gradually weakened in India for various geopolitical reasons (mainly continental problems in Europe) the British took the opportunity and rose to the top by make deals with India's ruling upper casts. While in India, the British built schools, hospitals, factories, roads, railroads, etc. And, once in a while, they engaged in putting down popular uprisings.

        I don't want to discuss the British defeat of a handful of Chinese during the Boxer rebellion, or the defeat of the semi-savage Africans, or the defeat of the country dwelling Boars. What civilized/viable nation was Britain able to defeat militarily on its own? The British were 'never' a major land power. In their rise, the British used very limited amounts of military force when moving into third world nations and setting up trading settlements. International trade is what made them powerful, not military might.

        Militarily, they became powerful on the high seas. On land, they could not defeat a single European nation.

        The reason why Spaniards, French, Germans, etc., were not as successful in setting up colonies around the world was because they were too entangled with their 'continental' affairs. Whereas the British, in their safe isolation, could afford to travel the world, evolve a powerful navy and set up trading colonies everywhere. However, they were not "conquerors" of nations as Russian or Germans were. The British were not good soldiers. They could only push their weight upon third world semi-savages and disorganized/troubled peoples. The British mostly used financial/political tools in achieving what they wanted.

        Neither Russians nor Germans expect from their migrants to be so absorbed, and at the end assimilated as do the English expect from their migrants.
        I take that to mean that Russians and Germans are more nationalistic/racist than the British... I do not condone pluralism, nevertheless, pluralistic/liberal/melting pot ideology is what made the British and the United States very lucrative and powerful empires.

        And when English encounter hard cases like the Pakistanis they make them suffer by severely limiting their opportunities thus creating second class citizens.
        Pakistanis are third world garbage, who also happen to be Turcophiles and hardcore Islamic fundamentalists. I would expect them to be second class citizens everywhere. And when the Armenian Republic one day becomes an economic success, I would expect Armenia's third world laborers to be treated the as second class citizens as well.

        If the Germans were racist they would never let Turks live in peace in Germany while they openly staying Turkish. Quite frankly Germans are most definitely not a racist nation.
        Due to their past history, the West has defanged and castrated Germany. The US is still the most powerful sociopolitical influence in Germany. There are laws in Germany that deal with racism very severely. As with most other western societies, most Germans today are liberalized. And that is why Turks survive in Germany. However, there still are tensions between Germans and Turks, more so than between Pakis and Brits. One day, perhaps when the US pulls out of Europe, German nationalism will rise again.

        As for the Russians then I have to say that there is racism in today’s Russia but there won’t be any in tomorrow’s one because Russian racism has economical reasons, and their economy is slowly but steadily getting out of the chaos.
        Believe it or not, I see many sociological/historical similarities between the Russians and the English. However, I concede that Russians are much-much more talented culturally and much-much more capable militarily.

        I believe the fundamental reason why Germans and Russians are not racist while English and Turks are, is the fact that neither Germans nor Russians are occupying someone elses lands like the Turks and the English do. When you occupy and destroy the original cultures and civilizations you basically have to have everyone dancing to your own tune in order to legitimize your conquests and make them successful.
        Most of Russia is not Russian, per say. Germany tried, but failed. Most nations on earth today, besides us Armenians , live on land that they did not originate in. Examples are too many to list.

        Anyway enker, I really don't want to discuss the British anymore. They are nobody today. Jews run their financial institutions. To survive, they have essentially become America's lap dog. Russia is teaching them hard lessons in political 'etiquette'. And as soon as the global American Empire weakens the Britain will fall into the abyss.
        Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

        Նժդեհ


        Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • #74
          Re: "Harsh reality" (HR) or "Armenian National Interest"(ANI)???

          Originally posted by Armenian View Post
          Aper, harts chka: Yes el kartsumeyi vor du liovin hamadzayn eyir im het...
          Enker jan, shnorakalutiun vor jamanak tramadretzir yev manramasn patasxanetzir. Dranov du dretsir bolor keter@ i vra angliatzineri veraberial yev yes hima karokhem asel vor yes liovin hamadzayn em qez het.

          I sense that you may have had some bad experiences with them.
          I had but nothing really spectacular just some encounters that didn’t impress me. But I also had a couple of very good Irish nationalist friends, and I guess their influence has also helped to shape my views about the English.

          Pakistanis are third world garbage, who also happen to be Turcophiles and hardcore Islamic fundamentalists
          To be honest I can’t stand the bastards. I know of their Turkophile attitude very well, and also about their very close relationship with the Azeribaboons. The only reason I mentioned them is because they are one of the biggest minorities in the UK and I was just trying to make a case in point.

          Anyway enker, I really don't want to discuss the British anymore. They are nobody today. xxxs run their financial institutions. To survive, they have essentially become America's lap dog. Russia is teaching them hard lessons in political 'etiquette'. And as soon as the global American Empire weakens the Britain will fall into the abyss.
          Shat lav asatzir. Drantz hernel anitzatz, aper jan.

          Comment


          • #75
            Re: "Harsh reality" (HR) or "Armenian National Interest"(ANI)???

            Armenian, I thought you didn't hate anyone.

            Pakistan is known to be anti-Shia so I don't get the relationship with the Azeris? Pro-Turkish? Most probably, but there are Western countries (or at least politicians) that are pro-Turkey, so expecting a Sunni Muslim country like Pakistan to not look up to the most westernized Sunni Muslim country in the world that aspires to eventually join the EU is ridiculous.

            Comment


            • #76
              Re: "Harsh reality" (HR) or "Armenian National Interest"(ANI)???

              Originally posted by TomServo View Post
              Armenian, I thought you didn't hate anyone.

              Pakistan is known to be anti-Shia so I don't get the relationship with the Azeris? Pro-Turkish? Most probably, but there are Western countries (or at least politicians) that are pro-Turkey, so expecting a Sunni Muslim country like Pakistan to not look up to the most westernized Sunni Muslim country in the world that aspires to eventually join the EU is ridiculous.
              Dude, where did I state that I hate anyone? I have opinions, feelings, likes and dislikes. Nonetheless, care to define the word "hate" before you use it?

              Having said that, I see Pakistan as one of the most despicable and dangerous nations on earth. I am not talking about the average Paki, who is no different than the average citizen anywhere on earth, I am talking about their governing elite, their military elite and their Islamic fanatics. Looking deep into the nature and character of Islamic terrorism which has plagued the world since the 90s, including Al-Qaeda and the 9/11 attacks, you will find Pakistan as a strong underlying denominator. One could find Pakistan's finger in a number of savage conflicts in the world, namely Kashmir and Afghanistan, and also in the Caucasus and the Balkans. Regarding Shi'a vs. Sunni, belief in any particular form of religion does not play a major defining role in geopolitical formulations. Religion is usually a tool or an excuse used to carry out political agenda. Having said that, Pakistan, as well as fanatical Islamic entities worldwide, have been used as weapons by certain powers in the West against Orthodox Christians - namely Armenians, Russians and Serbians. I am assuming here that you have begun to see the hard geopolitical reasons behind conflicts in the Balkans, Caucasus and Central Asia. What's more, one of the major inspirations in Pakistan's national genesis was closely tied to Turkey and Ataturk. There is a definite affinity between Pakis and Turks today, at least within upper levels of government. This, as well as being tools for western interests, may explain why Pakistan enthusiastically supported "Shi'a" Azeris against Armenians.
              Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

              Նժդեհ


              Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • #77
                Re: "Harsh reality" (HR) or "Armenian National Interest"(ANI)???

                Originally posted by Armenian View Post
                Dude, where did I state that I hate anyone? I have opinions, feelings, likes and dislikes. Nonetheless, care to define the word "hate" before you use it?
                I was referring to this.

                Comment


                • #78
                  Re: "Harsh reality" (HR) or "Armenian National Interest"(ANI)???

                  Originally posted by TomServo View Post
                  I was referring to this.
                  OK... And how does that change anything I said...?
                  Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

                  Նժդեհ


                  Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                  • #79
                    Re: "Harsh reality" (HR) or "Armenian National Interest"(ANI)???

                    The problem with Armenians is that they tend to generalize.

                    Oops.

                    Comment

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