USA considers AZR territorial integrity the main principle of settling NK

[truAnatolian]

Re: USA considers AZR territorial integrity the main principle of settling NK

Ive been noticing maps of kurdistan have been starting to include parts of Armenia more regularly. That wasn't the case before, or atleast I hadn't noticed.

[vasbourakan1]

Re: USA considers AZR territorial integrity the main principle of settling NK

hi Anoush, sorry for my late reply, just forgot for a while, as I was looking for your request, I siezed the occasion to effect some rereadings and refresh memory. It's good that you asked the wording related to 'personal factors', I must mention that this was not a turkish delegation member and I apologize for the wrong info, , but worse, the confession came from Aristide Briand, who at the time that he said these words had already left office, and was trying in a way to justify the attitude of the ww1 winning countries of not respecting their committments towards the armenians, so he looked very embarassed and evoked involved interests -without mentionning them- as well as personal reasons of the treaty participants. having said this I would like you to know that reading about history either in books, official papers, reports or the technicolor books -white book, blue book, etc- all this stuff is for the history, but parallel to the foregoing there are also reported conversations, correspondence, etc, which are not always reachable to the public, and you have to search for them, and what you find there is that how history is made. of course you have also to read between the lines, just to give an example here is a link, a french one,
http://hist.net/kieser/ma10/Lausanne1922-23.html which gives a pretty image of my idea, also there are other sites where are mentioned the financial transactions between the turks, the iraq petroleum company, the british, etc
http://www.uni-miskolc.hu/~wwwdrint/20042kovacs1.htm being one of them. this second site explanes that why after all these years -again reading between the lines, that the turkish party did not swallow the loss of Irak and their perpetual incursions there to so called fight the pkk. I mentioned this second site because the maps there show a promised kurdish homeland which is situated also partly on armenian lands. so amid all these I still maintain that turks, as well as western countries have two policies, one of which is the official one and public, and the other is secret and constant. In what concerns us the secret and constant policy of turkey is the annihilation of the armenians. they tried this in the past, they are trying also today, and they will not stop trying in the future what so ever are and will be their declarations and positions

[Anoush]

Re: USA considers AZR territorial integrity the main principle of settling NK

Anoush, as we have at home a huge quantity of books related to the genocide and it's aftermath, I'm still looking for your request of the exact phrasing concerning the personal factors, and will quote it asap, but funny, altough I read it several years ago, I can remember the circumstances how and when I read it, but can't remember in which book and even in what language, but patience, I will find it soon enough, it become a challenge for me. in what concerns the lausanne treaty, the turkish side was represented by ismet pacha inonu and riza bek who both refused categorically any participation of armenian delegates who were obliged to work outside the conference table. of course the turkish party was encouraged by the ww1winning countries attitude who changed drastically their attitude towards the armenian side and were now looking after mining concessions in turkey, ways to built pipelines for the the iraqi and bakou oil to bring it to the mediterranean sea -an example is the question of an american congressman who asked 'is there oil in armenia' and after receipt of a negative answer changed his attitude, p.s. I can mention the source of this example which is p balakian's the burning tigris, I read it two years ago- so finally the lausanne treaty come to it's final text where no where the words armenian or armenia is mentioned, and does not bear any armenian signature. of course big number of books have been published but I can recommend you to read either kersam aharonian's houshamadyan mez yegherny, where lausanne part is narrated in very accessible way with the minutes of the conference, but without mention of it's articles or at the extreme opposite a very professional study by moussa prince, an author of a study on the genocide in several volumes of which the second volume, un genocide impuni, l'armenocide,
-he is the inventor of the word armnocide- which includes a detailed analysis of lausanne treaty articles and their impact, including also l. pachlian's -member of the armenian delegation- correspondence with the secretary of the s.d.n. the predecessor of today's u.n. which also analyses the impact of this treaty on the armenians.

Thank you muchly dear Vasbourakan, Although I happen to have Peter Ballakian's book 'The Burning Tigris', but I didn't read it yet. I will, then somehow I'll get Kersam Aharonian's Houshamadyan Medz Yegherni. Merci pal.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: USA considers AZR territorial integrity the main principle of settling NK

Wait weren't those bastards also selling weapons to Georgia before they attacked SO? Do you think this pastern will repeat itself. And look all those new guns we are getting for free don't they look nice lol

[crusader1492]

Re: USA considers AZR territorial integrity the main principle of settling NK

This from a Turkish news source:

Armenians slam Israel's arm sale to Azerbaijan, urge to reverse action

A prominent Armenian activist urged the xxxish community in the U.S. to reverse the "dangerous" action of Israel's potential arm sale to Azerbaijan, Turkish Daily News reported on Thursday. (UPDATED)


U.S. Armenians have denounced Israel over press reports that it has agreed to sell arms and munitions to Azerbaijan, which is involved in a dispute with Armenia over the ongoing occupation of Azerbaijani lands.

A leading Armenian activist has also accused the American xxxish Congress, or AJC, a major xxxish association in the United States, of "supporting Azerbaijan".

The Armenian Assembly of America (AAA), one of the two largest Armenian groups in the country, earlier this week sent to its subscribers an article by Jirair Haratunian, the former chairman of the AAA's board of directors, denouncing the close ties of Israel and the ACJ with Azerbaijan.
The United Press International, quoting Israel's daily Haaretzi reported on Sept. 26 that the Israeli government has agreed to sell mortars, ammunition and military radios to Azerbaijan. Former Israeli Defense Minister Benjamin Ben Eliezer had previously said Azerbaijan would be a valuable ally for Israel due to its supply of oil and gas.

"A dangerous pattern is emerging in the Caucasus with new reports that Israel is continuing to sell advanced military armaments to Azerbaijan, costing hundreds of millions of dollars," Haraturanian said in his article.

"They sell these arms at a time when Ilham Aliyev, the president of Azerbaijan, has repeatedly threatened to recapture Nagorno-Karabakh by military force," he said

[Armanen]

Re: USA considers AZR territorial integrity the main principle of settling NK

On top of all that, the ever helpful joo lobby is involved too.

Israel selling weapons to Azerbaijan fuels possibility of new war

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ A dangerous pattern is emerging in the Caucasus with new reports that Israel is continuing to sell advanced military armaments to Azerbaijan, costing hundreds of millions of dollars, said Jirair Haratunian, former Chairman of the Armenian Assembly of America Board of Directors, in a column entitled "Dangerous Endorsement: More Israeli Military Arms sold to Azeris as xxxish lobby backs Azerbaijan," the Assembly told PanARMENIAN.Net.

The commentary continues, “These military sales are an incendiary fuse in a volatile South Caucasus where a startled world just witnessed a short bloody war between Russia and Georgia and where Moscow’s recognition of the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia has altered the geopolitical landscape in the region, perhaps permanently.

Ironically, Israelis who condemn Iran and Syria for arming Hamas and Hezbullah have now become serious arms merchants selling an array of offensive weapons to Azerbaijan. They sell these arms at a time when Ilham Aliyev, the President of Azerbaijan, has repeatedly threatened to recapture Nagorno Karabakh by military force. Moreover, there are more than military sales binding Israel to Azerbaijan these days. On October 2, an Azeri journal, DAY AZ, published an interview with Joseph Shagal, a deputy in the Israeli Knesset and chairman of the Israel-Azerbaijan Inter-Parliamentary Group, who said, "Both economic associations and military alliances are possible with such a partner as Azerbaijan." Shagal asserted that arms sales by Israel are strictly controlled by the government. He then added, "Israel will never supply arms to a country if this can affect the security of neighboring states." This man has apparently been deaf to Aliyev’s many bellicose threats to reignite war with Nagorno Karabakh.

As these developments have become public, one obvious question arises: Has the Bush Administration been complicit in these Israeli arms sales or just acquiescent? In either case, the result is the same. Admittedly the U.S. has issued tepid cautions against the use of force in the Caucasus, but these have not worked. Proof is the failed Georgian military episode in South Ossetia that upset regional stability and created fears of a new Cold War. What is required now is a resolute and unambiguous declaration that the United States opposes any new arms race in the Caucasus region and will oppose the use of force in unresolved conflicts. However, neither Vice President Richard Cheney nor Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte made such a statement during their back-to-back visits to Baku in September.

Unfortunately, Israel’s growing economic ties and military support of Azerbaijan have now been followed by promises from the American xxxish Committee (AJC) to lobby for Azerbaijan. This commitment was announced in Baku by David Harris, AJC's Chairman, who visited there at the invitation of Azeri President Ilhan Aliyev. With unashamed praise for upholding religious freedom, Harris said: "Religious tolerance in Azerbaijan is a model for the entire world." Harris is either unaware or callous about Azerbaijan's murderous pogroms of Armenians in Sumgait and Baku during the days when the Soviet Union was in the process of imploding. And he is apparently ignorant about the more recent cultural felony committed in Julfa by Azerbaijan’s military in which they destroyed hundreds of Khachkars, intricately-carved tombstones, in an Armenian cemetery that dates back to medieval times.

Harris went further. He said, "The AJC has long appreciated the importance of Azerbaijan as a true friend of the United States and Israel." He told reporters that he had discussed the Nagorno Karabakh issue at length and, in particular, the negotiating role of the OSCE's Minsk Group. He promised to urge the United States to pay more attention "to improve the OSCE Minsk Group’s mission." In light of Harris’s unabashed bias towards Baku, this promise will have to be carefully monitored. Finally, Harris paid tribute to his hosts with these words, "We have valued this opportunity to learn more about this strong ally in a challenging and critical region. We look forward to sharing our views about Azerbaijan's key role when we return to the United States."

Thus, we witness a disturbing combination of arms sales to Azerbaijan, possible military ties with Israel, and vocal support for Baku by AJC, one of the largest and most influential xxxish advocacy groups in America. These developments are scarcely known or understood by the rank and file of the xxxish community. They are unaware of the way in which the intrusion of Israel and the AJC into the volatile region of the Caucasus heightens the possibility of war. They don't realize that only a fragile ceasefire line separates Azeri and Armenian military forces and that arming and encouraging a saber rattling leader in Azerbaijan only fuels the possibility of a new war.”

http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=27375

[crusader1492]

Re: USA considers AZR territorial integrity the main principle of settling NK

and of course the armenian diaspora

That goes without saying

ANCA's Aram Hamparian video response on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKKPr2KaAu4

[vasbourakan1]

Re: USA considers AZR territorial integrity the main principle of settling NK

Perhaps you might be hearing officials become more vociferous about Bryza's allegiances. Negative reactions from Armenian outlets (be it the public, media or government) seem to be gaining traction. At any rate, I don't think this knuckehead's statement is going to being forgotten.

and of course the armenian diaspora

[vasbourakan1]

Re: USA considers AZR territorial integrity the main principle of settling NK

Dear Vasbourakan:

Your views are of course very valid and logical. Please would you be kind enough to scisinctly tell us that part of the lausanne treaty; how then the turkish delegation phrased their words and how was it that a lot of personal factors had their role in bringing that bloody conference to the anti Armenian result? I just want to know. Thank you in advance.

Anoush, as we have at home a huge quantity of books related to the genocide and it's aftermath, I'm still looking for your request of the exact phrasing concerning the personal factors, and will quote it asap, but funny, altough I read it several years ago, I can remember the circumstances how and when I read it, but can't remember in which book and even in what language, but patience, I will find it soon enough, it become a challenge for me. in what concerns the lausanne treaty, the turkish side was represented by ismet pacha inonu and riza bek who both refused categorically any participation of armenian delegates who were obliged to work outside the conference table. of course the turkish party was encouraged by the ww1winning countries attitude who changed drastically their attitude towards the armenian side and were now looking after mining concessions in turkey, ways to built pipelines for the the iraqi and bakou oil to bring it to the mediterranean sea -an example is the question of an american congressman who asked 'is there oil in armenia' and after receipt of a negative answer changed his attitude, p.s. I can mention the source of this example which is p balakian's the burning tigris, I read it two years ago- so finally the lausanne treaty come to it's final text where no where the words armenian or armenia is mentioned, and does not bear any armenian signature. of course big number of books have been published but I can recommend you to read either kersam aharonian's houshamadyan mez yegherny, where lausanne part is narrated in very accessible way with the minutes of the conference, but without mention of it's articles or at the extreme opposite a very professional study by moussa prince, an author of a study on the genocide in several volumes of which the second volume, un genocide impuni, l'armenocide,
-he is the inventor of the word armnocide- which includes a detailed analysis of lausanne treaty articles and their impact, including also l. pachlian's -member of the armenian delegation- correspondence with the secretary of the s.d.n. the predecessor of today's u.n. which also analyses the impact of this treaty on the armenians.

[Anoush]

Re: USA considers AZR territorial integrity the main principle of settling NK

Thank you Crusader for your enlightening post about ANCA's Ken Hachikian's wonderful lecture to US Official gents. In my opinion ANCA has been doing and continues to do wonderfully for our cause in the diaspora. I personally urge every Armenian to support ANCA as much and as best they can. I find their existence in here very important for us.