Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

And by the way. Turkey has the same score as FYROM("Macedonia"). Stop spreading lies Jos:

Here, ENJOY:

FYROM ("Macedonia") * 3 3 Partly Free [with a "trend arrow" that points down]

Turkey* 3 3 Partly Free

PR and CL stand for political rights and civil liberties, respectively; 1 represents the most free and 7 the least free rating. The ratings reflect an overall judgment based on survey results.

[arrows that points up or down] up or down indicates a trend of positive or negative changes that took place but that were not sufficient to result in a change in political rights or civil liberties scores of 1-7.

* indicates a country’s status as an electoral democracy.

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So the only difference between Turkey and FYROM("Macedonia") is that FYROM("Macedonia") has an arrow that points down but the score is the same.

Nice try smartass.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

[QUOTE=Jos;288635][QUOTE=Alexandros;288618]

Don't laugh too hard. I could name you many European countries with worse human rights ratings than Turkey, namely:

Russia (especially due to Chechnya)
Belarus
Moldova
FYROM
Azerbaijan
Armenia

Just refer to Freedom House 2009 report if you don't believe me. Enjoy:
http://www.freedomhouse.org/uploads/...WOW%202009.pdf

And just before you get over excited Alexandros, I know about EHCR rulings. The above is a far more exhaustive analysis than a simplistic count of court cases.

Well you kinda just made all further claims by you seem like falsehoods, debate wise you really messed up, you see you can't claim false stats, that makes you look bad. Also regarding FreedomHouse, they value free market as an example of a free country, I don't see how wage slavery is free, or how capitalism is greater than socialism in scales of freedom, I don't mean the state capitalist dreck that was put out by the Soviet Union, I mean real Marxist or Trotskite Marxism, that in my opinion is far freeer.

[Jos]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

And by the way. Turkey has the same score as FYROM("Macedonia"). Stop spreading lies Jos:

Here, ENJOY:

FYROM ("Macedonia") * 3 3 Partly Free [with a "trend arrow" that points down]

Turkey* 3 3 Partly Free

PR and CL stand for political rights and civil liberties, respectively; 1 represents the most free and 7 the least free rating. The ratings reflect an overall judgment based on survey results.

[arrows that points up or down] up or down indicates a trend of positive or negative changes that took place but that were not sufficient to result in a change in political rights or civil liberties scores of 1-7.

* indicates a country’s status as an electoral democracy.

---

So the only difference between Turkey and FYROM("Macedonia") is that FYROM("Macedonia") has an arrow that points down but the score is the same.

Nice try smartass.

My bad .But talk about nit picking ? Nevertheless I find it quite refreshing to see a Greek defend the FYR Macedonians for a change.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

My bad .But talk about nit picking ? Nevertheless I find it quite refreshing to see a Greek defend the FYR Macedonians for a change.

My bad

You get only 50 lashes this time.

But talk about nit picking ?

So maybe Greece wasn`t that bad after all?

Nevertheless I find it quite refreshing to see a Greek defend the FYR Macedonians for a change.

LOL. Not at all. The problem is that not everyone understands what FYROM stands for - that`s why I put "Macedonia" in quotation marks.

[garod]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

Please tell me if you see the word "Armenian" or "Greek" anywhere on Turkey's official tourism site, because I don't: http://www.tourismturkey.org/03-00-M...MS&Sub=EASTERN

Everything is "Turkish", "Anatolian", "Seljuk", "Ottoman", etc. They talk about Homer, Alexander, etc, without mentioning the word "Greek" or "Hellen". So many Greek temples and churches, so many Armenian monuments, and they weren't able to use the word "Greek", "Hellen" or "Armenian" a single time? This is obviously a deliberate attempt to disconnect Greeks and Armenians from their own historical artifacts.

The truth is that a very large number of Turks have severe inferiority complex which stems from their identity crisis. They have no real identity, they are a mixed bag of non-Turk peoples genetically and culturally, and even their so-called Altaic language is mostly Arabic and Farsi. All the monuments they take pride in (even their mosques and mausoleums) were designed and built by Greeks and Armenians for the most part, even throughout Ottoman times. All of this is fine with me—but when they try to erase the name of Greeks and Armenians from their own lands and monuments, that’s when it becomes a problem.

I agree with you and Alexandros that there is an identity cris in Turkey and some people think that everything is success of Turks.Maybe this is the result of one way looking to events and history which was prepared by the state.Your main mistake is also one way looking to a public as nothing changes in Turkey and everything is same - but Turkey is changing so fast and realising its own heritage( by Armenian,Greek,xxxish,Roman,Turkish and more).

When I checked Istanbul 2010 website out, I saw lots of projects about this heritage with the words of Armenian and Greek.

http://www.en.istanbul2010.org/PROJE/GP_518641
http://www.en.istanbul2010.org/PROJE/GP_518598
http://www.en.istanbul2010.org/PROJE/GP_521843

So Turkey is right about demanding back its cultural heritage which include Roman,Greek and Armenian monuments too and sold or robbed by others.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

I agree with you and Alexandros that there is an identity cris in Turkey and some people think that everything is success of Turks.Maybe this is the result of one way looking to events and history which was prepared by the state.Your main mistake is also one way looking to a public as nothing changes in Turkey and everything is same - but Turkey is changing so fast and realising its own heritage( by Armenian,Greek,xxxish,Roman,Turkish and more).

When I checked Istanbul 2010 website out, I saw lots of projects about this heritage with the words of Armenian and Greek.

http://www.en.istanbul2010.org/PROJE/GP_518641
http://www.en.istanbul2010.org/PROJE/GP_518598
http://www.en.istanbul2010.org/PROJE/GP_521843

So Turkey is right about demanding back its cultural heritage which include Roman,Greek and Armenian monuments too and sold or robbed by others.

When I checked Istanbul 2010 website out, I saw lots of projects about this heritage with the words of Armenian and Greek.

Did you also find any references to GREEK or ARMENIAN MONUMENTS????

Like, "this monument is a GREEK MONUMENT" or "that monument is an ARMENIAN MONUMENT".

They are talking generally about Greek and Armenian architects and NOT about GREEK and ARMENIAN MONUMENTS. See the difference?

And by the way, Istanbul is the European capital of 2010. Having no referece at all to "Greek" or "Armenian" would be political suicide, no?

The problem is that they are talking about Greek and Armenian architects and NOT ABOUT GREEK AND ARMENIAN MONUMENTS.

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And what happened to the CROSS of THE ARMENIAN CHURCH AT AKHTAMAR ISLAND????

ERTUGRUL GUNAY: ARMENIAN CHURCH AT AKHTAMAR ISLAND WON’T BE TOPPED WITH CROSS

Published on January 11, 2010

Armenian Church of Holy Cross at Akhtamar Island won’t be open for liturgies or topped with a cross, Turkish Minister of Culture and Tourism, Ertugrul Gunay stated. “The church is a museum under the Ministry and will be operating as a museum only,” Milliyet cited the Minister as saying. In December 2009, Van mayor Munir Karaloglu announced that, after speaking with Turkey’s Ministry of Culture, a decision was made to open the Armenian church on the island of Akhtamar. As he noted, the church, located in Lake Van in eastern Turkey, will begin officially opening its doors on September 12, 2010. The 300-seat Holy Cross Church, located on a small island in the middle of Lake Van in eastern Turkey, is in many ways a symbol of the country’s Armenian community. The church was built between 915 and 921 during the reign of Armenian King Gagik I of Vaspurakan and was one of the most important religious buildings in the region. The church, whose sandstone walls and dome are adorned with carvings of Jesus Christ and David and Goliath, is considered one of the greatest examples of Armenian architecture of the period, and an inspiration for the Gothic style that later developed in Europe, according to the New York-based Landmarks Foundation, which has advised on the church’s restoration. By the end of last century, the church was falling apart due to the heavy rains and winds that swept across the lake. Following its restoration and reopening in 2007 Holy Cross Church was operating as a museum.

Link

[garod]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

Did you also find any references to GREEK or ARMENIAN MONUMENTS????

Like, "this monument is a GREEK MONUMENT" or "that monument is an ARMENIAN MONUMENT".

They are talking generally about Greek and Armenian architects and NOT about GREEK and ARMENIAN MONUMENTS. See the difference?

And by the way, Istanbul is the European capital of 2010. Having no referece at all to "Greek" or "Armenian" would be political suicide, no?

The problem is that they are talking about Greek and Armenian architects and NOT ABOUT GREEK AND ARMENIAN MONUMENTS.

---

And what happened to the CROSS of THE ARMENIAN CHURCH AT AKHTAMAR ISLAND????

I have to say that your reaction is a little emotional. Those projects haven't shown yet because of opening which is starting today and there is only short information on the web.So I cannot give a exact detail about your question but it seems that they are about Armenian and Greek architects maybe there are also another projects about monuments.No need to be pessimistic.

Usage of churches as museum is another subject and relate with another topic as the mosque in Rodos island and Greece's approach to its heritage.For me, keeping all historical places as original is the best way for the respect.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

I have to say that your reaction is a little emotional. Those projects haven't shown yet because of opening which is starting today and there is only short information on the web.So I cannot give a exact detail about your question but it seems that they are about Armenian and Greek architects maybe there are also another projects about monuments.No need to be pessimistic.

Usage of churches as museum is another subject and relate with another topic as the mosque in Rodos island and Greece's approach to its heritage.For me, keeping all historical places as original is the best way for the respect.

No need to be pessimistic? LOL. We are talking about HOW Turkey is NOT defining GREEK and ARMENIAN MONUMENTS for what they are. Talking generally about Greek and Armenian architects isn`t the same as defining these monuments as GREEK and ARMENIAN.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Usage of churches as museum is another subject and relate with another topic as the mosque in Rodos island and Greece's approach to its heritage.For me, keeping all historical places as original is the best way for the respect.

I was talking about the cross. You know what a cross is, don`t you?

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/940521

The crescent at Suleymaniye Mosque in Rhodos is still there.

[garod]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

Why is this so difficult to understand?

I was talking about the cross. You know what a cross is, don`t you?

For me, keeping all historical places as original is the best way for the respect.

I think you dont understand well because you have one way looking as the nationalist Turks that you criticized.