Armenian hero’s monument opened in Sochi

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

This is from this year http://www.mfa.am/en/gallery/item/2011/04/24/syria/
A couple of years ago http://www.azad-hye.net/news/viewnew...wsId=621azzj41

I don't know what political activity the Halebtsi is talking about but in general political activities are not allowed in Syria anyway .

Middle Eastern Armenians are active in repatriation activities and Artsakh/Javakhk issue too. I think Artsakh has an office open in Lebanon and Lebarmos were one of strongest contributors to the Artsakh war.

I'll be speaking with him again real soon and I will ask for specific examples. As for the Armenians from Lebanon, I know some went but how many? No more than a few hundred at most (from what I know).

[Federate]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

That's not what a Syrian-Armenian friend from Allepo told me. He said for the past few years the government has limited Armenian political activities when they touch upon the Genocide, which is really the only political issue that Armenians in the Middle East diaspora get involved in.

This is from this year http://www.mfa.am/en/gallery/item/2011/04/24/syria/
A couple of years ago http://www.azad-hye.net/news/viewnew...wsId=621azzj41

I don't know what political activity the Halebtsi is talking about but in general political activities are not allowed in Syria anyway .

Middle Eastern Armenians are active in repatriation activities and Artsakh/Javakhk issue too. I think Artsakh has an office open in Lebanon and Lebarmos were one of strongest contributors to the Artsakh war.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

I am not a Russophone. Secondly, LTP had support of the overwhelming majority of the Yerkrapah union of war veteran, including General Manvel--who is hardline and opposes the return of ANY territories. LTP had the backing Jirayr Seiflyan. LTP had the backing of Sassoun Mikaleyan. It was not in agreement with LTP that they backed LTP, but to oust Serje for his defeatist views.

If you're not forgetting, Serje when he came to power undertook many things that LTP was accused of. The protocol, putting the genocide under question, and recognizing turkey's boundaries--something that even ltp didn't dare to do.

If was only after the Turks made a fool of him and embarrased the his govt after tricking them into signing the protocols did he change his stance, after he got a taste what turks were made of. the serj sarkissian administration has still failed to void the failed protocols, especially after the turks continually link it to a pro-azeri settlement of the nk conflict. this is not good policy. Also bad policy is continuing to negotiate under duresss while azeris are violating the ceassefire. In effect, Serje DID what your types accused LTP WOULD DO.

All those military men you just listed are idiots when it comes to politics and should have stuck to what they know best, military strategy. Would you be ok with an MP wanting to become a general in the Armenian military? If the manvel you mention is the choban from Etchmiadzin then you have really discredited yourself. He is one of the most corrupt and uncouth people in Armenia.

Open borders with turkey was a good idea and still remains so. Turkey has nothing major to gain from open borders. It was under pressure from Russia and the US to make an attempt but the azeri's used their influence and the turkish nationalists riled up the public. Armenia on the other had did have much to gain, such as a new route to the outside world, huge market, and the dependence on the banana republic of georgia would drop considerably thus enhancing Armenia's security. It is certain hysterical elements within the diaspora who tried to paint Serj and co as wanting to sell out the nation, again showing their political immaturity.

Anyway, this issue has been discussed at length and further talk of it belongs in the relevent thread, not this one.

That sounds Armeno-phobic to me.

You support ltp, it does not get anymore Armenophobic than that.



The Real face of Levon Ter Petrosyan ( HAK ) part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntwAX...mbedded#at=482

The Real face of Levon Ter Petrosyan ( HAK ) - part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTFSa...eature=related

[Artsakh]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

It is you who made it a big issue and started spreading your Russophobic ideas. You views on Russia are well known, as well as on Serj. If I remember correctly you were the one who supported ltp in 2007/8. Now you are lecturing me about nationalism and geopolitics?

I am not a Russophone. Secondly, LTP had support of the overwhelming majority of the Yerkrapah union of war veteran, including General Manvel--who is hardline and opposes the return of ANY territories. LTP had the backing Jirayr Seiflyan. LTP had the backing of Sassoun Mikaleyan. It was not in agreement with LTP that they backed LTP, but to oust Serje for his defeatist views.

If you're not forgetting, Serje when he came to power undertook many things that LTP was accused of. The protocol, putting the genocide under question, and recognizing turkey's boundaries--something that even ltp didn't dare to do.

If was only after the Turks made a fool of him and embarrased the his govt after tricking them into signing the protocols did he change his stance, after he got a taste what turks were made of. the serj sarkissian administration has still failed to void the failed protocols, especially after the turks continually link it to a pro-azeri settlement of the nk conflict. this is not good policy. Also bad policy is continuing to negotiate under duresss while azeris are violating the ceassefire. In effect, Serje DID what your types accused LTP WOULD DO.

Oh, I am glad the statue brought 2 men from a city that had over 25,000 people of Armenian descent. Exceptions do not prove the rule, and there is barely a correlation here either. Let's remember one thing, it was the Armenians of Artsakh that did the vast majority of the fighting and dying, not the big talking diaspora

That sounds Armeno-phobic to me.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

It seems like you cannot understand the simple fact that the issue of the statute is a community issue regarding Russian citizens of Armenian descent. By making it bigger than it actually is, it shows your sillyness and you immaturity regarding politics. A few years back there was an issue regarding lowering the US flag in the city of glendale to half-staff in honor of the victims of the Armenian genocide. community members debated the issue passionately. In the end, the city decided against putting lowering the flag to half staff. This was only a community matter. Only an idiot would link this to foreign policy issues, and geo-politics. it is an internal, domestic issue on the community level. The point is, you have no point.


I was the first one here to mention how it was wrong to go ahead with putting it up without approval. that's not the issue here. YOu're mixing up Armenia's foreign policy and interlinking it with ordinary Armenians feelings towards not allowing the statute. That's quite a stupid linkage. Armenia's government is not compromising it's relations with strategic parthner russia over the statute--it is internal russian domestic matters, none of the business of Armenia in the first place.




Obviously, you know nothing about statehood, nationhood. What differeniates nations? What differentiates the Turk from the Armenian? why is it that you even care about Armenia? Nations have national figures. Armenians that led the struggle, gave their lives, so that Armenians can stay Armenian, preserve their faith. These are the very figures responsible for Armenian exeistance. A nation that does not honor the memory of its heroes, those that gave their lives for the nation, is a doomed nation. It is their struggle that we're continuing, otherwise, what are we fighting for anyways?

a statute is perpetuating the memory, and not letting it be forgotten.

let me put it like this, IF A STATUTE IS SO UNIMPORTANT, WHY ARE TURKS SO AGAINST IT? BECAUSE THEY WANT US TO FORGET OUR HEROES, THEY WANT US TO FORGET 'STRUGGLE'.

During the artsakh struggle, author andranig chalabian wrote the book, "Revolutionary figures" as inspiration for Artsakh freedom fighters. he didn't say, "what wil a small thing like a book change." only small minds with no soul and no heart won't understand what it could change.

As for what soghomon tehlerians monument has done, i believe it was not coincidental that the brave city of Fresno produced two great freedom fighters from the diaspora:

Karo Qaqejian:



Monte Melkonian:

It is you who made it a big issue and started spreading your Russophobic ideas. You views on Russia are well known, as well as on Serj. If I remember correctly you were the one who supported ltp in 2007/8. Now you are lecturing me about nationalism and geopolitics? And fyi, internal issues can quickly become external ones. Case in point, a street trader lighting himself on fire in January and now we have the so called Arab Spring. I am not saying that this statue issue will become something like that, just pointing out how things are inter related and we should not treat them as if they exist in a vacuum.

I never mentioned the Armenian government making this a foreign policy issue, if anything, the Armenian government suggested that the Armenians of Sochi follow the city order and work with the local government to come to an agreement. As has been stated, Adler, a suburb of Sochi, was chosen as the location. End of story.

Oh, I am glad the statue brought 2 men from a city that had over 25,000 people of Armenian descent. Exceptions do not prove the rule, and there is barely a correlation here either. Let's remember one thing, it was the Armenians of Artsakh that did the vast majority of the fighting and dying, not the big talking diaspora.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

It's the opposite. Syria, especially Der Zor, has monuments and complexes related to the Armenian Genocide. And Syrian-Armenians are on the streets each year on April 24. The only successful thing Turkey has done is prevented AG recognition in Syria, mainly because they share a border.

That's not what a Syrian-Armenian friend from Allepo told me. He said for the past few years the government has limited Armenian political activities when they touch upon the Genocide, which is really the only political issue that Armenians in the Middle East diaspora get involved in.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

Dear friend, I understand that politics is not black and white. For example, a few years back when Ahmadjinezad visited Yerevan on the last day of his trip when he was suppose to visit the Zizernakabert to pay tribute to the Genocide victims, he left early on some made-up story basis, so he would avoid visiting there and not angering the Turks. The Armenian gov't didn't allow that to interfere in our relations with Iran, and I don't think our government is stupid enough to let a statue get in the way of our relations with russia either. That's not the point here. The point is, that blog was insulting and criticizing ordinary Armenians for being unhappy about taking the statue down. That Armenians were outraged, that shows how their heroes, how armenia is so important to them.

Lets leave politics to our politicans in yerevan. Our job as ordinary armenians is to propogate Armenian nationalism, Armenian culture, Armenian heritage.

I didn't read that blog, but I agree it's wrong to criticise that fact that Armenians were unhappy with it being taken down. It's only natural any patriotic Armenian would be enraged with such a take down of a statue of a national hero.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

Turkey for the past few years has pressured Syria into not allowed certain Armenian genocide events, and it has worked. Assad has been good to the Armenians of Syria overall, as well as his father before him, however that did not stop him from preventing AG events. The point is, the statue is a minor issue in comparison to larger ones that could occur, no matter how unlikely you may deem them to be.

It's the opposite. Syria, especially Der Zor, has monuments and complexes related to the Armenian Genocide. And Syrian-Armenians are on the streets each year on April 24. The only successful thing Turkey has done is prevented AG recognition in Syria, mainly because they share a border.

[Artsakh]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

We should always advance our culture and our heritage, but we shouldn't let this comparably small statue incident turn into a large incident with our good friend Russia. It's not worth it. Our strategic relations with Russia are more important for our people than this one statue. Of course, I am saddened that it was taken down, but what can we do more unless making this into a potential sore point between us and Russia? We should have fought as much as we can to have it not been torn down, but there comes a limit across which if passed, it may turn into more of a political incident rather than community matter.

Dear friend, I understand that politics is not black and white. For example, a few years back when Ahmadjinezad visited Yerevan on the last day of his trip when he was suppose to visit the Zizernakabert to pay tribute to the Genocide victims, he left early on some made-up story basis, so he would avoid visiting there and not angering the Turks. The Armenian gov't didn't allow that to interfere in our relations with Iran, and I don't think our government is stupid enough to let a statue get in the way of our relations with russia either. That's not the point here. The point is, that blog was insulting and criticizing ordinary Armenians for being unhappy about taking the statue down. That Armenians were outraged, that shows how their heroes, how armenia is so important to them.

Lets leave politics to our politicans in yerevan. Our job as ordinary armenians is to propogate Armenian nationalism, Armenian culture, Armenian heritage.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

Wrong! By propogating Armenian-ness, Armenian culture, and Armenian hertiage, you are helping serve Armenian interets, the interest of keeping Armenian communities from assimilating and keeping them Armenians, Armenians who someday may contribute greatly to their homeland. It is through such small, "symbolic" ways that you further that "political agenda" and instill patriotic spirit in diasporan Armenians. Otherwise, they would just assimilate quickly and become whatever and not care for Armenianness or the homeland.

At the same time, by you being "policially correct", that is what does NOTING TO FURTHER ANY AGENDA. are you an official in yerevan who has any say over foreign policy strategies? NO! of course not! be politically correct all you want, praise the russians all you want to the point of lessening Armenia, what does that change "on the ground"???? That is what does NOT change anything! youre no diplomat capable of effecting any change in any policy.

We should always advance our culture and our heritage, but we shouldn't let this comparably small statue incident turn into a large incident with our good friend Russia. It's not worth it. Our strategic relations with Russia are more important for our people than this one statue. Of course, I am saddened that it was taken down, but what can we do more unless making this into a potential sore point between us and Russia? We should have fought as much as we can to have it not been torn down, but there comes a limit across which if passed, it may turn into more of a political incident rather than community matter.