Murder of Vahe Avetyan

[Haykakan]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

Vrej you miss some important facts about the examples you give and i do not blame you because most people miss the same ones. Lewinski was an agent - the incident occured when Clinton was forcing Israel to negotiate and compromise on Palastinian issues. This was blackmail not a example of justice. So long as Armenia is a capitalist nation the interest of those in power will always clash with those of the ordinary people and those in power will be getting better at screwing its own people - so good in fact that just like the USA people will no longer realize that they are being screwed. I agree with you that if a system works we should emulate it for the good of our people and country but you have to make a important distinction between what is a real effective system and what is a cover for much more sinister process.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

I will not argue on Oval office scandals, since i am no expert on: what I can say, is that conspirationist theories will always exist, and are oftenwell founded, nevertheless: I wish someone would blackmail Serjik, so he would be forced to punish this murderers, and I am ok with such a 'justice', rather than none....

On others examples to copy:
You are right, of course, one must have the real facts, and not propagandist aspects of a rosy picture.

Yet, what I can spell, with a very quick look as exemplary for us:
- nothing special from the US, or EU as the differences are too big, nothing objective to compare.
- Mos talked of Iran: what I would willingly and happily copy from Iran, is their macro water management, that is, the systematic building of a net of dams, on all available source of water, and very well taught use in irrigation. We have a lot, a lot to learn from them (of course we do not necessarily have the same huge sums available, but yet, this is an other story...)
- From Lebanon: their banking system, wich is a total shadow mess, but works perfectly well, even in a non existant state. If our leadership had a little clue of the huge potential of such a sector, and accepted to let work normal bankers, (we have a lot of them, and a lot tried to begin a mutually profitable business, but yet were racketed from day 1, and left...) in place of imposing soviet era mob bosses and their rackettering, we would make huge gains...Yes, Lebanon has the oil barel of the Arab world, but in this domain, our Diaspora may be a real resource. (I could develop this, and this is one of few eras, where mutually profitable, win/win situation exists, and is totally disregarded, because our leaders are ill-educated, and have no idea what banking is..)
- From Ireland: IT sector boosting policy..
- From Israel: an awful lot: - Army structure/mobilisation and permanent training of reservists/ integration of Diaspora young man and girls in the reservist sytsem (with a lot of nation building and re-integration benefits, etc...): this system that they apply, thanks to huge western financial help, is not that effective with them, but would work even better with a rather homogenous nation like ours (since they are absolutely not homogenous, contrary to us)
- Immigration of millions from all over the world... (here again, means available are too different, but we loose even easy jobs, like Irak , Syria communities return, or even Azerbaijan's 400.000 or Tiflisahays...!!)
- Their water looting from neighbors, and drop irrigation system. (totally immoral, but very exemplary for us)
- Their IT, high tech MIC....
- Their cult of themselves, sacralysing each one of their lives, if necessary at the expanse of thousands of the enemy lives... (yet again, may seem selfish and immoral for an outsider, but yet the best I could wish for us)

- etc....

[Sarkis86]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

I am reposting a private message I had sent to Vrej1915 yesterday when this thread taking form on the Military Balance thread:

Concerning Israel:
This state is all but friendly to us.
They commit war crimes, genocides, etc... no matter.
They arm our enemies, deny the Genocide, etc...
It's not a moral judgment I am stating.
But as a small state submerged by enemies, with an existential threat, and nation/state/religion discrepencies, of course they are comparable to us.
We would only gain, by trying to achieve what they did... (once again, forget about moral here)

Hey, I didn't want to take the thread off-topic, but keep in mind with israel: They are most definitely not in the same situation as Armenia. First off, they are an aggressive country and they pose a threat to all their neighbors, while Armenia is justifiably defending itself from its aggressive neighbors. Israel has nuclear weapons, so none of its neighbors will even dare to think about launching a war against israel: therefore israel most certainly does not face an existential threat. On top of that, israel has something like 250+ fighter planes, including the very advanced F-15. Unlike Armenia, israel poses a major threat to the entire region. And everytime it has fought a war, the American military has stepped in to make sure no country threatens israel (I think at one time in the 1970s the US engaged in direct fighting with Lebanon when the latter was gaining the upper hand against israel. America also gives israel access to every advanced piece of hardware and military technology it has. israel acts like it is innocent and it fears for its life in front of the western press so that noone says anything when israel bombs Palestinians, or Syrians, or Lebanese, or Egyptians, or Jordanians, or even Iranians if they had the chance. israel also acts innocent so it can collect $$billions in holocaust reparations from Europe.

Take a look at this map Vrej, it is a list of all the countries that did and did not recognize Palestine as an independant state in the United Nations. Notice anything?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:P...ition_only.svg

The whole of Western Europe and America sided with israel! That's how much control they have. Compare that to the stupid anti-Armenian resolutions the azerbaijani monkeys keep introducing and passing in the United Nations about Artsakh, and see how unlike israel, only seven countries dared to vote against the azerbaijanis.

Take a look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izUk...layer_embedded

It is seven minutes of the American President kissing israeli/xxxish ass in a pathetic attempt to secure his own reelection. Do you honestly think israel has anything at all to worry about, let alone an "existential" threat. xxxx no.


***

Your heart may be in the right place Vrej, but the media you cite such as lragir, hetq, azatutyun, armenianow, and the other foreign-funded filth in Armenia present only biased news that suits the needs of the foreign governments who fund them. And those foreign governments prefer azerbaijan and its oil and gas reserves to the rights of a few Armenians in Artsakh.

Hachogh!

[Vrej1915]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

I am reposting a private message I had sent to Vrej1915 yesterday when this thread taking form on the Military Balance thread:

Hachogh!

& this was my reply:
Originally Posted by Vrej1915
You still mix moral issues, with realpolitics.
I in no way said they were right to do this, or that...

Now, if they achieved all you said, and yet you are well of the right picture, that is only to their credit, we may and must only take example of them,...if we could.
........
As a matter of fact, I can mention to you hundreds of episodes where they committed war crimes, etc... and as much where we were targeted, while they cooperated with the Turks...

Yet what you say changes nothing to the facts.
If our country could dare to be as unjust and agressive towards its neighbors, I would only be proud and happy with that.

Once again, do not mix moral and realpolitics.

If I can give you an advice: try to read calmly, and try to understand what you read, put your emotions and sympathies aside.
Second, if yet you would permit: try to not give name to your compatriots, specially when you do not understand what they say.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

Ծեծ՝ նախորդ ծեծը չմարսած. Ռուբեն Հայրապետյանի տղաների «արկածները»
03 Հուլիսի 2012 - 10:24

HayNews.am-ը «Երևանտրանսից» փորձեց տեղեկանալ, թե ճիշտ է արդյոք այսօր մամուլում տեղ գտած այն տեղեկությունը, որ Ռուբեն Հայրապետյանի թիկնազորի ներկայացուցիչները թիվ 81 երթուղայինի վարորդի են ծեծել՝ Սմբատ անունով։
Գերատեսչության ներկայացուցիչը մեզ հետ զրույցում հաստատեց, որ նման դեպք եղել է, սակայն ասաց, որ տեղյակ չեն, թե ով է ծեծողը, վարորդը ինչ վիճակում է. «Մենք ընդհանրապես իրավասու չենք պատասխանել ձեր հարցերին։ Դեպքին վերաբերող մանրամասները կճշտվեն և այնուհետև կբարձրաձայնվեն»։

Նա, սակայն, հավաստիացրեց, որ 81 համարի երթուղայինը հենց այսօր էլ կանցնի բնականոն աշխատանքի, որն այդ միջադեպից հետո 3 օր կաթվածահար վիճակում է եղել։

Հիշեցնենք, որ, ըստ մամուլի հրապարկումի, Ռուբեն Հայրապետյանի տղաները հարձակվել են 81 համարի երթուղայինի վարորդի վրա և ծեծի ենթարկել նրան, քանի որ Սմբատը տրոլեյբուսին չհարվածելու համար մեքենան «փախցրել է», այդպիսով կտրելով «Տոյոտա» ջիպի ճանապարհը։ Մեքենայում գտնվողները իջել են եւ ծեծել երթուղայինի վարորդին։


HayNews.am

[Vardan]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

https://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/uefa-and-fifa-administration-resignation-of-ruben-hayrapetyan#share

Peitition vor hanenk deran rad anenk

[Vrej1915]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

Ռուբեն Հայրապետյանը հրաժարվու՞մ է պատգամավորական մանդատից
03 Հուլիսի 2012 - 21:00

Քիչ առաջ հայտնի դարձավ, որ ԱԺ ՀՀԿ-ական պատգամավոր Ռուբեն Հայրապետյանը հանդիպում է ունեցել ՀՀ նախագահ Սերժ Սարգսյանի հետ:
Քաղաքական շրջանակներում խոսակցություններ են շրջանառվում, որ առաջիկայում Հայրապետյանը վայր է դնելու պատգամավորական մանդատը: HayNews.am-ին հայտնի է դարձել, որ նախագահի հետ հանդիպումից հետո Ռուբեն Հայրապետյանը հանդես կգա հայտարարությամբ՝ գուցե հենց կապված մանդատը վայր դնելու հետ:

Հիշեցնենք, որ Ռուբեն Հայրապետյանին պատկանող «Հարսնաքար» ռեստորանում տեղի ունեցած ողբերգական միջադեպի պատճառով օրերս մահացավ զինորական բժիշկ Վահե Ավետյանը, ինչը հասարակության շրջանում մեծ դժգոհություն ու զայրույթ առաջացրեց. մարդիկ սկսեցին պահանջել Ռուբեն Հայրապետյանից` վայր դնել պատգամավորական մանդատը:

HayNews.am

[Federate]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

Ռուբեն Հայրապետյանը հրաժարվեց պատգամավորական մանդատից

ԱԺ պատգամավոր, ՀՖՖ նախագահ Ռուբեն Հայրապետյանը հայտարարել է իր պատգամավորական մանդատը վայր դնելու մասին: Այս Կապակցությամբ նա հայտարարություն է տարածել, որը ներկայացնում ենք ստորև.
Ամեն ինչ կտայի, որ այդ չարաբաստիկ երեկոյան լինեի այնտեղ, բռնեի երիտասարդ-ների վրա բարձրացող բռունցքները, կանգնեցնեի այս դժբախտությունը, որ կյանք խլեց, ընտանիքներ կործանեց, երեխաներ որբացրեց: Ամեն ինչ կտայի այս ամենը հետ պտտելու համար: Բայց չեմ կարող: Վահեն արդեն չկա: Ու ես դրանով պետք է ապրեմ: Ու պետք է նայեմ նրա ընտանիքի անդամների աչքերին: Չգիտեմ ոնց:
Ասում են ամեն ինչ օրենքով պիտի լինի. վստահ եմ օրենքով կլինի, 100 մեղավոր կլինի 100 պատիժ կլինի: Բայց հարցը միայն օրենքը չի:
Հարցը շատ ավելի բարդ է: Ու ես դա շատ լավ եմ հասկանում: Հիմա շատերն են մեղադրում ինձ, նույնիսկ բաների համար, որ ինձ հետ կապ չունեն կամ հորինված են. երևի իրավունք ունեն: Բայց իմ առաջին մեղադրողը հենց ես եմ:
Ես պիտի կանխեի նման դժբախտությունը ու չեմ կարողացել դա անել: Չպետք է իմ և իմ ընտանիքի հետ առնչություն ունեցող միջավայրում նման իրադարձություն հնարավոր լիներ: Ես ինձ չեմ ներում, ու չգիտեմ ոնց պիտի ներում հայցեմ:
Այս պահին ես հայտարարում եմ, որ բարոյական պարտավորություն եմ զգում և վայր եմ դնում Ազգային Ժողովի պատգամավորի իմ մանդատը: Ես ներողություն եմ խնդրում իմ բոլոր ընտրողներից, որ չեմ կարողանա արդարացնել իրենց սպասելիքները, բայց վստահ եմ, որ ուղղակի պարտավոր եմ այս քայլն անելու: Ուզում եմ հավատալ, որ ավանցիներն ինձ ճիշտ կհասկանան: Հույս ունեմ, որ մի օր էլ կկարողանամ ներում ստանալ Վահեենց ընտանիքում. համենայն դեպս ամեն ինչ կանեմ դրա համար:
Սգում եմ բոլոր հարազատների հետ միասին:

http://www.tert.am/am/news/2012/07/03/ruben-hayrapetyan-mandat/

[londontsi]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

.
He should also resign as head of the Armenian Football Federation.

A more respectable person should run that role.

I cannot see how he can run honourably ANY public office or responsibility.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

Embattled ‘Oligarch’ Quits Parliament Over Deadly Violence

http://www.armenialiberty.org/content/article/24634202.html

Emil Danielyan, Astghik Bedevian
Հրապարակված է՝ 03.07.2012
Bowing to mounting pressure from opposition politicians, civic activists and media, an influential businessman close to the government stepped down as member of Armenia’s parliament late on Tuesday in connection with deadly violence at a Yerevan restaurant owned by him.

In a written statement, Hayrapetian said he feels “moral” responsibility for the death of Vahe Avetian, a military doctor who was attacked at the restaurant in still unclear circumstances.

“I would give everything to be there on that ill-fated night to hold back the fists raised against the young men and stop that tragedy, which took away a life, ruined families and made children orphans,” he said. “I would give everything to roll that back. But I can’t. Vahe is not alive anymore. I must live with that and look his family members in the eyes. I don’t know how.”

“Now many are blaming me, even for things that have nothing to do with me and are fabricated. They probably have the right to do that. But my main accuser is myself,” he said.

“I should have prevented that tragedy but failed to do that. Such an incident should not have been possible in a place connected with myself and my family. I can’t forgive myself and don’t know how I should ask for forgiveness.”

“I hope that I will one day manage to receive forgiveness from Vahe’s family. In any case, I will do everything for that,” added the controversial tycoon heading the Armenian Football Federation.

The statement came shortly after Hayrapetian reportedly met with President Serzh Sarkisian at the presidential palace in Yerevan. There was no immediate official confirmation of that meeting.


Armenia - A protester outside the presidential palace in Yerevan holds a poster demanding "punishment" for businessman Ruben Hayrapetitian and his bodyguards, 1Jul2012.
Hayrapetian earlier denied any responsibility for the June 17 severe beating of Avetian and two other military doctors at the Harsnakar restaurant. In a June 19 statement, he condemned media reports and commentary blaming him for the violence. He also pledged to “do everything” to help law-enforcement authorities identify and punish the culprits.

Six men, most of them the restaurant’s security guards, were subsequently arrested and charged with assaulting the medics. The main suspect in the case reportedly worked as one of Hayrapetian’s bodyguards.

Hayrapetian came under renewed fire after Avetian died of severe heads wounds last Friday. He has been the main target of virtually daily demonstrations held in Yerevan, including outside the presidential office, since then.

The protesters, who are also actively using online social networks, say that Hayrapetian is responsible for the incident because he had instilled a sense of impunity in burly men working for him. They have said he must therefore resign as both parliament deputy and chairman of the Armenian Football Federation.

Also calling for Hayrapetian’s exit from the National Assembly on Tuesday was the Armenian Association of Political Science. The organization is headed by Hayk Kotanjian, a retired army general who runs a think-tank linked to Armenia’s Defense Ministry. A corresponding statement issued by Kotanjian on Tuesday morning gave more weight to media reports that many in the Armenian military also hold Hayrapetian responsible for the army doctor’s death.

A deputy chairman of the ruling Republican Party of Armenia (HHK), Galust Sahakian, brushed aside those calls just hours before Hayrapetian announced his resignation. Sahakian insisted that the tycoon did not sanction the assault and must not be punished for his employees’ violent conduct. He told RFE/RL’s Armenian service (Azatutyun.am) that the HHK leadership headed by President Sarkisian will not even discuss the resignation demands.

Sahakian also defended Sarkisian’s and the HHK’s failure to offer official condolences to Avetian’s family. “Every person has their own way and logic of feeling the pain,” he said.

____
That old school dinosaur called Sahakian, lost a good occasion to shut it up.....