Murder of Vahe Avetyan

[Vrej1915]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

I am reposting a private message I had sent to Vrej1915 yesterday when this thread taking form on the Military Balance thread:

Hachogh!

& this was my reply:
Originally Posted by Vrej1915
You still mix moral issues, with realpolitics.
I in no way said they were right to do this, or that...

Now, if they achieved all you said, and yet you are well of the right picture, that is only to their credit, we may and must only take example of them,...if we could.
........
As a matter of fact, I can mention to you hundreds of episodes where they committed war crimes, etc... and as much where we were targeted, while they cooperated with the Turks...

Yet what you say changes nothing to the facts.
If our country could dare to be as unjust and agressive towards its neighbors, I would only be proud and happy with that.

Once again, do not mix moral and realpolitics.

If I can give you an advice: try to read calmly, and try to understand what you read, put your emotions and sympathies aside.
Second, if yet you would permit: try to not give name to your compatriots, specially when you do not understand what they say.

[Sarkis86]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

I am reposting a private message I had sent to Vrej1915 yesterday when this thread taking form on the Military Balance thread:

Concerning Israel:
This state is all but friendly to us.
They commit war crimes, genocides, etc... no matter.
They arm our enemies, deny the Genocide, etc...
It's not a moral judgment I am stating.
But as a small state submerged by enemies, with an existential threat, and nation/state/religion discrepencies, of course they are comparable to us.
We would only gain, by trying to achieve what they did... (once again, forget about moral here)

Hey, I didn't want to take the thread off-topic, but keep in mind with israel: They are most definitely not in the same situation as Armenia. First off, they are an aggressive country and they pose a threat to all their neighbors, while Armenia is justifiably defending itself from its aggressive neighbors. Israel has nuclear weapons, so none of its neighbors will even dare to think about launching a war against israel: therefore israel most certainly does not face an existential threat. On top of that, israel has something like 250+ fighter planes, including the very advanced F-15. Unlike Armenia, israel poses a major threat to the entire region. And everytime it has fought a war, the American military has stepped in to make sure no country threatens israel (I think at one time in the 1970s the US engaged in direct fighting with Lebanon when the latter was gaining the upper hand against israel. America also gives israel access to every advanced piece of hardware and military technology it has. israel acts like it is innocent and it fears for its life in front of the western press so that noone says anything when israel bombs Palestinians, or Syrians, or Lebanese, or Egyptians, or Jordanians, or even Iranians if they had the chance. israel also acts innocent so it can collect $$billions in holocaust reparations from Europe.

Take a look at this map Vrej, it is a list of all the countries that did and did not recognize Palestine as an independant state in the United Nations. Notice anything?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:P...ition_only.svg

The whole of Western Europe and America sided with israel! That's how much control they have. Compare that to the stupid anti-Armenian resolutions the azerbaijani monkeys keep introducing and passing in the United Nations about Artsakh, and see how unlike israel, only seven countries dared to vote against the azerbaijanis.

Take a look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izUk...layer_embedded

It is seven minutes of the American President kissing israeli/xxxish ass in a pathetic attempt to secure his own reelection. Do you honestly think israel has anything at all to worry about, let alone an "existential" threat. xxxx no.


***

Your heart may be in the right place Vrej, but the media you cite such as lragir, hetq, azatutyun, armenianow, and the other foreign-funded filth in Armenia present only biased news that suits the needs of the foreign governments who fund them. And those foreign governments prefer azerbaijan and its oil and gas reserves to the rights of a few Armenians in Artsakh.

Hachogh!

[Vrej1915]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

I will not argue on Oval office scandals, since i am no expert on: what I can say, is that conspirationist theories will always exist, and are oftenwell founded, nevertheless: I wish someone would blackmail Serjik, so he would be forced to punish this murderers, and I am ok with such a 'justice', rather than none....

On others examples to copy:
You are right, of course, one must have the real facts, and not propagandist aspects of a rosy picture.

Yet, what I can spell, with a very quick look as exemplary for us:
- nothing special from the US, or EU as the differences are too big, nothing objective to compare.
- Mos talked of Iran: what I would willingly and happily copy from Iran, is their macro water management, that is, the systematic building of a net of dams, on all available source of water, and very well taught use in irrigation. We have a lot, a lot to learn from them (of course we do not necessarily have the same huge sums available, but yet, this is an other story...)
- From Lebanon: their banking system, wich is a total shadow mess, but works perfectly well, even in a non existant state. If our leadership had a little clue of the huge potential of such a sector, and accepted to let work normal bankers, (we have a lot of them, and a lot tried to begin a mutually profitable business, but yet were racketed from day 1, and left...) in place of imposing soviet era mob bosses and their rackettering, we would make huge gains...Yes, Lebanon has the oil barel of the Arab world, but in this domain, our Diaspora may be a real resource. (I could develop this, and this is one of few eras, where mutually profitable, win/win situation exists, and is totally disregarded, because our leaders are ill-educated, and have no idea what banking is..)
- From Ireland: IT sector boosting policy..
- From Israel: an awful lot: - Army structure/mobilisation and permanent training of reservists/ integration of Diaspora young man and girls in the reservist sytsem (with a lot of nation building and re-integration benefits, etc...): this system that they apply, thanks to huge western financial help, is not that effective with them, but would work even better with a rather homogenous nation like ours (since they are absolutely not homogenous, contrary to us)
- Immigration of millions from all over the world... (here again, means available are too different, but we loose even easy jobs, like Irak , Syria communities return, or even Azerbaijan's 400.000 or Tiflisahays...!!)
- Their water looting from neighbors, and drop irrigation system. (totally immoral, but very exemplary for us)
- Their IT, high tech MIC....
- Their cult of themselves, sacralysing each one of their lives, if necessary at the expanse of thousands of the enemy lives... (yet again, may seem selfish and immoral for an outsider, but yet the best I could wish for us)

- etc....

[Haykakan]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

Vrej you miss some important facts about the examples you give and i do not blame you because most people miss the same ones. Lewinski was an agent - the incident occured when Clinton was forcing Israel to negotiate and compromise on Palastinian issues. This was blackmail not a example of justice. So long as Armenia is a capitalist nation the interest of those in power will always clash with those of the ordinary people and those in power will be getting better at screwing its own people - so good in fact that just like the USA people will no longer realize that they are being screwed. I agree with you that if a system works we should emulate it for the good of our people and country but you have to make a important distinction between what is a real effective system and what is a cover for much more sinister process.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Sorry aper, I misread your sentence.

No harm

[Vrej1915]

Re: Murder of Vahe Avetyan

Guys, let me put something clear once for all.
Taking example, or being inspired by an other states model, in no way does mean, that I have sympathy, or preach good relations with it.
From purely selfish, state interests point of view, I want the best examples applied elsewhere for my people, for my state.
If there were good examples, working well in Turkey, I would definitely wish to copy those models, or adapt them to us....
Would that mean i am pro-Turkish???

Come on!
Stop reacting epidermically each time you hear the name of a state you dislike, love or hate...


----------
Just for info, to avoid receiving personal messages of protest or questioning....
Apart from mine, there is only one country on earth that I love (love is by definition a non rational feeling, not based on interest or rational calculations): it is Italy.
And there is only one country that I hate. No need to mention... Because we are a rare case, where the existence of one is synonimous to the end of the other..., there is not enough space under the blue earth, in Asia Minor....
I do not even hate 'azarbaitchan', since i do not consider it to be a long term, lasting phenomenon...

[Mos]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Mos,
Did I say the contrary?

Sorry aper, I misread your sentence.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Not true. They sold over a billion dollars worth of weapons to Azerbaijan, cooperate with Azeri Intelligence, and in all are hand in hand with Azerbaijan in many sectors. Israel is a very much hostile country to us, our much better and closer friend is Iran

Mos,
Did I say the contrary?

[Mos]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Concerning Israel:
This state is all but friendly to us.

Not true. They sold over a billion dollars worth of weapons to Azerbaijan, cooperate with Azeri Intelligence, and in all are hand in hand with Azerbaijan in many sectors. Israel is a very much hostile country to us, our much better and closer friend is Iran

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I know it is hard to believe but yes Obama now has the right to kill anyone anywhere and this does mean killing US citizens in the middle of DC (or anywhere else) with everyone watching. As a matter of fact he has already assassinated a few US citizens and some teenage girls are on his hitlist to and yeh they are US citizens as well. It all started with the patiot act and has evolved into some neonazi executive privilage making Obama judge jury and executioner. Democracynow.com has a good segment about how a young judge tried to stand up to this by declaring the patriot act unconstitutional but she was being pressured heavily by the administration to change her mind and you sure as hell didnt hear about this stuff on CNN. I am not saying what goes on in Hayastan or America is ok but when you start comparing USA and Irael to Armenia you are infact comparing the godfather to one of the little rescals. Sure the gangster lifestyle is bad and needs to be condemed and changed but under the kind of government system we and many others have it will simply evolve into a more sophisticated and much deadlier form like the ones in the USA and Israel. I agree that this is off topic and these posts should be moved to another section.

I do not live in the US, and have no idea who Obama killed or raped?? But never heard of.
What I do know, is that a US president was nearly toppled because Monica ate his cigar, an other was toppled because he listened by tape recorders what the opposition was doing, etc... (In yerevan, these are considered 'good points'!)

I know that in Israel, they tried their president because he 'raped' or harassed a secretary... (imagine, in Armenia no one would stay in office )
On these days, all Israeli nation was in shock, and mobilised, because 2 guys (french israelis), killed by a car accident a young girl, and then fled to France. (In Armenia, they do not have to hide, the jeep owner may even ask compensation for the bumper that was damaged...)
They as a Nation stood together, and forced France to try those 2...
Because even one life of an Israeli is sacred to them.

In a countries like the UK , a minister was toppled, because he misbehaved in civil life, with crimes no body would have noticed in Yerevan.
In Germany a minister was fired, because he received a loan free of charge, a 'gift' of less than 100000 �...
In Sweden a president or PM was fired, because she used his job Credit Card to buy a pair of shoo....

Now, of course I do not compare all these well established and functioning states with us.
I do not ask to fire the President, because he gambles a couple of Million dollars in a Monaco Casino, and leaves as guaranty the president of the National Assembly etc... all these are normal for 'us'...

But yet, there are limits that should and will be respected.
An Armenian's life is the most sacred thing, and must be accepted as such.
The people will force the regime to accept this, if not, it will be the regime's fault, if ever there will be a revolt.

The guys protesting today are not the usual HHSh people.
Most are the best, resilient citizens, who would go to defend the bordes, much before mobilisation is declared.
As an officer, Vahe's murder is a blatant insult to the honor of the army.
The IMPUNITY that seems to be applied once again (since Nemetz the Turk seems to go with Serjik to Kiyev, for the finals of Eurofoot, wich in no way concerns us...), will end up badly for everyone.

Of course the HHsh, and the other scum will try to exploit the occasion.
Why not? They make a fuss of nothing, so when there is a real ground to revolt, of course they will jump on.

But who's fault is it?
I think it is the regime's fault.
Serjik must once in his life behave as a President, jail at least for 15 years all the bustards having participated to the gang murder (and not let them out a couple of years later, with a tiket to Dubai, where they will live in luxury hotels, and work as pimps, supervising Nemets the Turk's "buisness"), and at least kik out Nemets the Turk from his party, parliament, and why not, jail him a couple of years, for trafic of influence...

Once an example would be made, a lot of things would come to their place....

If not, I can not blame the officers willing to bomb the Hnatzakar in Yerevan and Sevan....
And if the regime does not punish Nemets, then it should not blame the public for what it will have to face..