Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

[Anahita]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

Thank you for verifying my assumption.

But, bell's got some good observations! There is no political commentary here, just an observation on observations.

I think this is a brilliant observation (This might give bell-the-cat, ever-collecting-more-data, a cheshire grin

http://forum.armenianclub.com/showthread.php?t=6769&page=4

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

Thank you for verifying my assumption.

Lab rats don't have assumptions, they have reactions and responses to things.

[armenica]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

Lab rats don't have assumptions, they have reactions and responses to things.

Thank you once more! Keep on degrading yourself. I will not lower myself to your level if that's what your after. Unlike you I have the image of my site and my organisation to protect and will not harm that just for your amusement.

But thank you for showing your true level and sparing me the trouble to waste more time on you.

Engough waste of time. Back to the main topic.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

But, bell's got some good observations! There is no political commentary here, just an observation on observations.

Maybe I should end my observations on subjects that I have already examined enough to already know the answers!
I was asking the wrong question (the wrong question being - "propose realistic solutions towards the preservation of Armenian buildings in Turkey")

People like "armenica" with their obstructive and narrow mind-set are actually part of the problem. So the question should really have been "how to remove/neutralise the negative influences of people like armenica from the issue of the preservation of Armenian buildings in Turkey?".

The Armenian monuments in Turkey are as much "genocide survivors" as the very few remaining human survivors, and are as much a part of the history of that genocide as any other aspact. Yet thet are totally ignored.
For example, last year, at UCLA there was an important conference organised by Professor Richard Hovannisian titled "After Nine Decades, The Enduring Legacy of the Armenian Genocide". In it there was not a single topic that dealt with what is now the only physical legacy of that genocide, the architectural remains of Armenian origin that still exist in eastern Turkey. Such an ommssion will not have been by chance. The complete failure of Armenian organisations to do anything to remedy the situation is because they, for their own selfish and self-seeking ends, actually pursue policies that encourage the continued destruction of Armenian monuments in Turkey.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

Thank you once more! Keep on degrading yourself. I will not lower myself to your level if that's what your after. Unlike you I have the image of my site and my organisation to protect and will not harm that just for your amusement.

But thank you for showing your true level and sparing me the trouble to waste more time on you.

Engough waste of time. Back to the main topic.

"The image of my site and my organisation" OTT ego at work here, I think.

That reminds me. Moderators - isn't there something in the rules against the constant self-advertising of other websites in a members posts, i.e. urls should not be placed in someone signature area, but be restricted to the users profile page?

As for this topic. It is about the destruction of the cemetery at Julfa. To understand properly the response of Armenian organisations to that destruction it is necessary to understand their past responses to and attitudes towards the Armenian monuments in Turkey.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

That reminds me. Moderators - isn't there something in the rules against the constant self-advertising of other websites in a members posts, i.e. urls should not be placed in someone signature area, but be restricted to the users profile page?

Yes, I'm right.

Rule 6
Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

[armenica]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

Yes, I'm right.

Rule 6
Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

You are pathetic, do you know that? I am quite used to this kind of desparation attempts when the argumentation depletes during talks about similar issues, so I am not surprised at all. I simply don't want to get dragged into the lower levels which your argumentation and smearing campaign belongs to.

First: Yes, I am damn satisfied and pride of what we have acomplished with our site, Armenica.org (http://www.armenica.org)

Second: Armenica.org is not a business; it is an ideal organisation for spearding information about Armenia and its history;

Third: We already have a great number of visitors and a link which is not even clickable in my signature does not mean anything in our statistics. And by anything I really mean NOTHING.

Four: I did not reply in this thread for generating trafic to our site; we have other much more effcient means to achieve that. I joined the thread to talk about the destroyed cemetary, but instead ended up playing with the cat.


It is sad to encounter bitter persons like you but I guess It is a good practice for future argumentation with self-observed, bitter mudslinging characters like you. I have tried to keep it civilised and will continue to do so, but will not tolerate either personal attacks on me or Armenica.org.

You narrowminded hate towards Armenian organisations and blaming them for the shortcomings of a goverment such as Turkey which has failed in every single commitment to preservation as well as respect for cultural rights and heritage of its minorities, in past as in present, only demosntrates your nature: You belong to the group which suffers from inferiority complex, chanelling his or hers discontent with the situation of its people inwards, exonerating the oppressor from all charges.

I thought of dropping the whole thing and continue to talk about the real issue addressed in this thread, but your personal attacks can not be allowed to go unanswered because your petty unsecure personality will think that you actually are right.

Armenians have no obligations what so ever to pay for the restoration of cultural heritage of a second nation which proudly brags about its multi ethnic history and current culture, regardless if the objects in question are Armenian or not. However, the constitution of the Republic of Armenia includes a paragarph addressing this issue:

Article 11 in Section 1, regarding "The Foundations of Constitutional Order":

"Historical and cultural monuments and other cultural values are under the care and protection of the state.

Within the framework of principles and norms of international law, the Republic of Armenia shall promote the protection of Armenian historical and cultural values located in other countries, and shall support the development of Armenian educational and cultural life."

The fact that they don't have acted on this has obvious reasons oblivious to you. As it goes for the money of the diaspora, Turkey has no high regards towards that group; not before, not now. So in that sense you and they have a common view.

Nevertheless, if you even dream that Turkey would:

1) allow Armenians to even consider restoring Armenian historical buildings within the borders of Turkey while the very same regime has taken every measure to erase the trace of that ethnic element,

2) actually spend one cent out of the theoratically allocated sum for this purpose on the Armenian churhces and monastaries

then I suggest that you never wake up from the sweet dream you are dreaming, because where you are right now is a much better place than the real cruel world in which Turkey does everything in its power to harm Armenia and Armenians.

Your nonsense would have been some what defendable if the Armenian churches fell to pieces due to the erosion of time. Then one could say that Armenian money could have saved the churches. But when the churches are destroyed deliberately, directly or indriectly, by the government sanctions, then your suggestion is nothing than a remote dream, singled out inside your Highness' omniscient mind. (by the way this last word was sarcasm...)

No one says that the Armenian organisations or political bodies, within or outside Armenia, are perfect or even close to be perfect. But despite that fact, your suggestion is so illogical and unjustified that no organisation in their sound state of mind would even consider allocating such an amount to send into a black hole of animosity determined to erase all traces of that very element. Then that money would do much more good disappearing in the black hole of Armenian economy.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

I think I have run you around the rat-maze enough, so I won't pose you further tests by replying to the above.

However, you are clearly breaking forums rules by advertising you own website within all your posts (the fact that it is not-for-profit is irrelevant). So you should remove it. If not, then I will take the matter up with the moderators.

[armenica]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

I think I have run you around the rat-maze enough, so I won't pose you further tests by replying to the above.

However, you are clearly breaking forums rules by advertising you own website within all your posts (the fact that it is not-for-profit is irrelevant). So you should remove it. If not, then I will take the matter up with the moderators.

Arrogant as usual, I see. So no change there. Keep on the good work with presenting yourself; you don't need no one's help in that.


AZERIS ARE SURPRISED HOW ARMENIANS MANAGED TO GET PHOTOS OF JUGHA RIFLE RANGE
By Aghavni Harutyunian

AZG Armenian Daily #050
21/03/2006

The Azeri printed media has responded to the recent publication
the photos that depicted the new rifle range that replaced the
Jugha medieval khachkars in the Armenian newspapers. In particular,
"Zerkalo" newspaper relentlessly denies the fact that over 10.000
medieval cross stones were gathered in the Armenian graveyard in Old
Jugha (Nakhijevan).

The newspaper poses two questions: firstly, they wonder whether the
news on destruction of the Armenian cross stones and construction of
military range on that territory are true. Secondly, they try hard to
understand how the Armenians managed to get the photos of the range,
if it belongs to the Azeri army.

Tair Taghizade, press secretary of the Azeri Foreign Ministry, stated
that Azerbaijan has no official information that would prove that the
abovementioned range belongs to Azerbaijan. Taghizade also stated that
even if the information is confirmed one should not be surprised, as
any independent state has the right to carry out military arrangements
in its territory. Denying the fact of destruction of Armenian khachkars
without pressing any arguments, he said that the Armenian side tries
to deceive the international community.

While the Azeri Defense Ministry totally excludes that the range
belongs to the Azeri army. They added that they have certain doubts
about the territory as well, as the photos could be results of
montage. This brilliant idea occurred to retired colonel-lieutenant
Ouzeir Jafarov. He added that the range is situated in Meghri region
of Armenia, while the photos are shot from the territory of Iran. He
grounded the last factors with the supposition that everything was
done within the framework of Iran-Armenia cooperation.

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg141533.html

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

However, you are clearly breaking forums rules by advertising you own website within all your posts (the fact that it is not-for-profit is irrelevant). So you should remove it. If not, then I will take the matter up with the moderators.

Thank you, since I see that you have removed the .org part of your signature.
Since the avatar image also could arguably be said to be a promotion of a website, maybe the mods should make it clearer what can and what cannot be used by members.