Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

[armenica]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

yes armenica you answered...but you didnt answer it.If we had some mosques and cultural heritage in YEREVAN or other armenian cities,would armenian people preserve and maintain them properly for turkey"s cultural heritage.certainly armenians would demolish and obliterate all the ancient ottoman empire dwellings.answer?

First of all, Yerevan has never been under Ottoman rule, hence no Ottoman churches are in Yerevan. However, there is the Blue Mosque in Yerevan which was renovated recently and the same goes for the mosque in Agdam, the only standing building in the city when the hostalities ended. Even that is subject of renovation with Iranian fundings.

But this has nothing to do with the other one. You are talking about theoretical issues. I am presenting facts. However, your statement admits indirectly that the Armenian buildings has been destroyed in Turkey. Whether Armenians would have the same is irrelevent since 1) they obviously preserve foreign objects 2) there are no such actual cases of destruction of other religious or cultural objects within Armenia's borders.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

Furthermore: Why should the Armenians in diaspora pay for the preservation of the cultural heritage in Turkey which that country so proudly presents in the tourist brochures?!? They don't present them as "Armenian" but as "Turkish heritage"!!! Those churches are a part of Turkey, hence its government is obliged to preserve them, not a foreign source. If you talked about UNESCO or some other international cultural instance which of some magical reason was exclusively controlled by Armenians, then I could agree, but not when you demand that private citizens of foreign countries must finance the preservation of Turkey's own cultural heritage.

I got you so right. (And don't anyone think I am happy about getting him right. )

Your attitude is exactly as I predicted: it's: "I would rather everything is destroyed than one cent of Armenian money goes to Turkey". How sad it is that your inability to get over an upbringing that was undoubtedly filled with anti-Turkish attitudes stops you from even considering doing something positive to remedy the situation.
An intelligent person would understand that a pragmatic attitude is called for. Such a person would recognise that it is objectionable that Turkey does not take better care of its Armenian heritage, but would also recognise that the World is not an ideal place and that if anything positive is ever going to be done to save what is left of the Armenian monuments within Turkey then petty misgivings must be put aside. Are you up to taking that step? Is any Armenian up to taking that step? I doubt it.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

But this has nothing to do with the other one. You are talking about theoretical issues. I am presenting facts. However, your statement admits indirectly that the Armenian buildings has been destroyed in Turkey. Whether Armenians would have the same is irrelevent since 1) they obviously preserve foreign objects 2) there are no such actual cases of destruction of other religious or cultural objects within Armenia's borders.

Ther are plenty of cases of the destruction of religious or other cultural objects within Armenia's borders. Even discounting the massive destruction that took place in the Stalinist period, half of old Yerevan has been flattened over the last decade. And we have Armenian politicians, their pockets filled with bribes, saying that since these buildings are not Armenian they should not be preserved.

A more interesting theoretical question would be: if there were large numbers of Turkish monuments in Armenia in ruinous or derelict condition, would Turks in Turkey or the diaspora sit back and do nothing but whine for 90 years, or would they get together and organise foundations and charities that would finance the repair and maintenance of those buildings?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

there is the Blue Mosque in Yerevan which was renovated recently and the same goes for the mosque in Agdam, the only standing building in the city when the hostalities ended. Even that is subject of renovation with Iranian fundings.

I will recycle your own words, with appropriate changes.

"This mosque is a part of Armenia, hence its government is obliged to preserve it, not a foreign source. If you talked about UNESCO or some other international cultural instance which of some magical reason was exclusively controlled by Iranians, then I could agree, but not when you demand that private citizens of foreign countries must finance the preservation of Armenia's own cultural heritage. What's next? Paying its foreign debt as well?"

[armenica]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

Ther are plenty of cases of the destruction of religious or other cultural objects within Armenia's borders. Even discounting the massive destruction that took place in the Stalinist period, half of old Yerevan has been flattened over the last decade. And we have Armenian politicians, their pockets filled with bribes, saying that since these buildings are not Armenian they should not be preserved.

A more interesting theoretical question would be: if there were large numbers of Turkish monuments in Armenia in ruinous or derelict condition, would Turks in Turkey or the diaspora sit back and do nothing but whine for 90 years, or would they get together and organise foundations and charities that would finance the repair and maintenance of those buildings?

I wouldn't know. I have no Turkish friends to ask about the theoretical preservation of imaginary Turkish objects in Armenia.

Do you even know what it is you're saying?!!!!

[armenica]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

I will recycle your own words, with appropriate changes.

"This mosque is a part of Armenia, hence its government is obliged to preserve it, not a foreign source. If you talked about UNESCO or some other international cultural instance which of some magical reason was exclusively controlled by Iranians, then I could agree, but not when you demand that private citizens of foreign countries must finance the preservation of Armenia's own cultural heritage. What's next? Paying its foreign debt as well?"

What part of this is irionic or controdictary?! I don't get it? The Blue Mosque stands there renovated in year 2006, doesn't it?! Do you even understand what you write?

There is something wrong with you, but I can put my finger on it. Keep writing so I can see if I can understand how your mind works....

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

I don't get it?

That is why you have, and you are, the problem. I note you have not even bothered to reply to my post about a pragmatic attitude being required.

The Blue Mosque stands there renovated in year 2006, doesn't it?!

Paid for by Iranian money. You seem to think it is OK for Iranians to pay for the repair and upkeep of Persian monuments in Armenia, but not OK for Armenians to pay for the repair and upkeep of Armenian monuments in Turkey.

[armenica]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

That is why you have, and you are, the problem. I note you have not even bothered to reply to my post about a pragmatic attitude being required.

Paid for by Iranian money. You seem to think it is OK for Iranians to pay for the repair and upkeep of Persian monuments in Armenia, but not OK for Armenians to pay for the repair and upkeep of Armenian monuments in Turkey.

I'm still trying to figure out what makes you so bitter towards Armenia and Armenian diaspora. I have some ideas, but not quite sure yet.

I don't even bother to make you understand since you are the crusading kind, full of confidence about you being the absolute truth. So be it. Doesn't bother me at all.

But if you really are comparing Armenia with Turkey and their internal attitude towards minorities, I don't think that you know much about either countries. I'm not saying this because I am Armenian and I admit and I'm aware of the many shortcomings of Armenia and the Armenian community, but I wouldn't say that Armenian cultural preservation and promotion is comparable to Turkey.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

I don't even bother to make you understand since you are the crusading kind, full of confidence about you being the absolute truth. So be it. Doesn't bother me at all.

But it is you who is the one with the "absolute truth"; a truth that blinds you and binds you to inactivity.
Once again, you have ignored my point about a pragmatic attitude being needed. Let me remind you what pragmatic means. It is a behaviour that is not dictated by theory or dogma, but by a desire to make practical and realistic actions that will lead to meaningful and positive consequences.

[armenica]

Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

Fancy theroy doesn't make you right.