Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

    Originally posted by ASSASSINATER

    yes armenica you answered...but you didnt answer it.If we had some mosques and cultural heritage in YEREVAN or other armenian cities,would armenian people preserve and maintain them properly for turkey"s cultural heritage.certainly armenians would demolish and obliterate all the ancient ottoman empire dwellings.answer?
    First of all, Yerevan has never been under Ottoman rule, hence no Ottoman churches are in Yerevan. However, there is the Blue Mosque in Yerevan which was renovated recently and the same goes for the mosque in Agdam, the only standing building in the city when the hostalities ended. Even that is subject of renovation with Iranian fundings.

    But this has nothing to do with the other one. You are talking about theoretical issues. I am presenting facts. However, your statement admits indirectly that the Armenian buildings has been destroyed in Turkey. Whether Armenians would have the same is irrelevent since 1) they obviously preserve foreign objects 2) there are no such actual cases of destruction of other religious or cultural objects within Armenia's borders.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

      Originally posted by armenica
      Furthermore: Why should the Armenians in diaspora pay for the preservation of the cultural heritage in Turkey which that country so proudly presents in the tourist brochures?!? They don't present them as "Armenian" but as "Turkish heritage"!!! Those churches are a part of Turkey, hence its government is obliged to preserve them, not a foreign source. If you talked about UNESCO or some other international cultural instance which of some magical reason was exclusively controlled by Armenians, then I could agree, but not when you demand that private citizens of foreign countries must finance the preservation of Turkey's own cultural heritage.
      I got you so right. (And don't anyone think I am happy about getting him right. )

      Your attitude is exactly as I predicted: it's: "I would rather everything is destroyed than one cent of Armenian money goes to Turkey". How sad it is that your inability to get over an upbringing that was undoubtedly filled with anti-Turkish attitudes stops you from even considering doing something positive to remedy the situation.
      An intelligent person would understand that a pragmatic attitude is called for. Such a person would recognise that it is objectionable that Turkey does not take better care of its Armenian heritage, but would also recognise that the World is not an ideal place and that if anything positive is ever going to be done to save what is left of the Armenian monuments within Turkey then petty misgivings must be put aside. Are you up to taking that step? Is any Armenian up to taking that step? I doubt it.
      Plenipotentiary meow!

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

        Originally posted by armenica
        But this has nothing to do with the other one. You are talking about theoretical issues. I am presenting facts. However, your statement admits indirectly that the Armenian buildings has been destroyed in Turkey. Whether Armenians would have the same is irrelevent since 1) they obviously preserve foreign objects 2) there are no such actual cases of destruction of other religious or cultural objects within Armenia's borders.
        Ther are plenty of cases of the destruction of religious or other cultural objects within Armenia's borders. Even discounting the massive destruction that took place in the Stalinist period, half of old Yerevan has been flattened over the last decade. And we have Armenian politicians, their pockets filled with bribes, saying that since these buildings are not Armenian they should not be preserved.

        A more interesting theoretical question would be: if there were large numbers of Turkish monuments in Armenia in ruinous or derelict condition, would Turks in Turkey or the diaspora sit back and do nothing but whine for 90 years, or would they get together and organise foundations and charities that would finance the repair and maintenance of those buildings?
        Plenipotentiary meow!

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

          Originally posted by armenica
          there is the Blue Mosque in Yerevan which was renovated recently and the same goes for the mosque in Agdam, the only standing building in the city when the hostalities ended. Even that is subject of renovation with Iranian fundings.
          I will recycle your own words, with appropriate changes.

          "This mosque is a part of Armenia, hence its government is obliged to preserve it, not a foreign source. If you talked about UNESCO or some other international cultural instance which of some magical reason was exclusively controlled by Iranians, then I could agree, but not when you demand that private citizens of foreign countries must finance the preservation of Armenia's own cultural heritage. What's next? Paying its foreign debt as well?"
          Plenipotentiary meow!

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

            Originally posted by bell-the-cat
            Ther are plenty of cases of the destruction of religious or other cultural objects within Armenia's borders. Even discounting the massive destruction that took place in the Stalinist period, half of old Yerevan has been flattened over the last decade. And we have Armenian politicians, their pockets filled with bribes, saying that since these buildings are not Armenian they should not be preserved.

            A more interesting theoretical question would be: if there were large numbers of Turkish monuments in Armenia in ruinous or derelict condition, would Turks in Turkey or the diaspora sit back and do nothing but whine for 90 years, or would they get together and organise foundations and charities that would finance the repair and maintenance of those buildings?
            I wouldn't know. I have no Turkish friends to ask about the theoretical preservation of imaginary Turkish objects in Armenia.

            Do you even know what it is you're saying?!!!!

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

              Originally posted by bell-the-cat
              I will recycle your own words, with appropriate changes.

              "This mosque is a part of Armenia, hence its government is obliged to preserve it, not a foreign source. If you talked about UNESCO or some other international cultural instance which of some magical reason was exclusively controlled by Iranians, then I could agree, but not when you demand that private citizens of foreign countries must finance the preservation of Armenia's own cultural heritage. What's next? Paying its foreign debt as well?"
              What part of this is irionic or controdictary?! I don't get it? The Blue Mosque stands there renovated in year 2006, doesn't it?! Do you even understand what you write?

              There is something wrong with you, but I can put my finger on it. Keep writing so I can see if I can understand how your mind works....

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

                Originally posted by armenica
                I don't get it?
                That is why you have, and you are, the problem. I note you have not even bothered to reply to my post about a pragmatic attitude being required.

                The Blue Mosque stands there renovated in year 2006, doesn't it?!
                Paid for by Iranian money. You seem to think it is OK for Iranians to pay for the repair and upkeep of Persian monuments in Armenia, but not OK for Armenians to pay for the repair and upkeep of Armenian monuments in Turkey.
                Plenipotentiary meow!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

                  Originally posted by bell-the-cat
                  That is why you have, and you are, the problem. I note you have not even bothered to reply to my post about a pragmatic attitude being required.

                  Paid for by Iranian money. You seem to think it is OK for Iranians to pay for the repair and upkeep of Persian monuments in Armenia, but not OK for Armenians to pay for the repair and upkeep of Armenian monuments in Turkey.
                  I'm still trying to figure out what makes you so bitter towards Armenia and Armenian diaspora. I have some ideas, but not quite sure yet.

                  I don't even bother to make you understand since you are the crusading kind, full of confidence about you being the absolute truth. So be it. Doesn't bother me at all.

                  But if you really are comparing Armenia with Turkey and their internal attitude towards minorities, I don't think that you know much about either countries. I'm not saying this because I am Armenian and I admit and I'm aware of the many shortcomings of Armenia and the Armenian community, but I wouldn't say that Armenian cultural preservation and promotion is comparable to Turkey.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

                    Originally posted by armenica
                    I don't even bother to make you understand since you are the crusading kind, full of confidence about you being the absolute truth. So be it. Doesn't bother me at all.
                    But it is you who is the one with the "absolute truth"; a truth that blinds you and binds you to inactivity.
                    Once again, you have ignored my point about a pragmatic attitude being needed. Let me remind you what pragmatic means. It is a behaviour that is not dictated by theory or dogma, but by a desire to make practical and realistic actions that will lead to meaningful and positive consequences.
                    Plenipotentiary meow!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Destruction of the Armenian Cemetery at Djulfa

                      Fancy theroy doesn't make you right.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X