Armenia and the information war

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Some nationalist youth groups were strongly opposed to the festival. A November 11 statement from five youth organizations argued that Armenians “have no moral right to show Azerbaijani films” so long as Azerbaijan pursues an “anti-Armenian” policy. The youth wing of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation-Dashnaktsutiun called the film festival “blasphemous” and a sign of “disrespect for Armenia and the Armenian people.”

You know you are in the right when the ARF nutters start up with their usual ranting.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenia and the information war

You biased cat. Why don't your fellow non-Armenian brothers organize such a thing in Azerbaijan, but only in Armenia? It's a two-way street. This American-financed promotion campagin serves a certain goal, simultaneously ignoring the Julfa Destructions and anti-Armenian racism in Azerbaijan. We Armenians are not so stupid to fall for your stupid traps. Why did you learn Armenian history, just to denigrate it and to make negative comments? How can you live with yourself, being a snake as you are.

I know I am in the right when the ARF nutters start up with their usual ranting.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Azerbaijan suffers another defeat in its “struggle” with Armenia
November 17, 2010 - 18:46 AMT 14:46 GMT

Intangible Cultural Heritage! Have you looked at the UNESCO flim-flam that explains what that phrase means? It seems than the French stuffing their faces with lots of French food counts as "intangible cultural heritage". Like everything in UNESCO, it is propaganda. They might as well list the French predisposition to have a once-a-year riot as an example of French "intangible cultural heritage"! The listing of khatchkars is another example that shows it is all propaganda. The ghastly eyesores, machine-cut monstrosites, that are produced in Armenia today have nothing in common with genuine khachkars. "Intangible Cultural Heritage" as UNESCO defines it has to be a living art form that is under danger of disapearing from modernisation or some other threat. In what way is the production of those modern lumps of rock in danger? (Are the customers for them going to have a sudden conversion to good taste perhaps?) Traditional khachkars are not examples of intangible cultural heritage as UNESCO defines it because they are already an extinct art form. Khatchkar production is not dying or under threat, it is already dead, and has been dead for the past 150 years.

[Mos]

Re: Armenia and the information war

It seems that Iran is two faced, cooperating with us on economic projects, but then doing this with Azerbaijan. And also Ahmadinejad called Azerbaijan a "brother" to Iran. Where is Azar?

The Islamic Republic has signed up to Azerbaijani-drafted resolutions by Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) accusing Armenia of unleashing aggression against Azerbaijan. It most recently did so at a September meeting in New York of the foreign ministers of OIC member states.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Khachkar production is not dying or under threat, it is already dead, and has been dead for the past 150 years.

Off-topic for here, but it would be interesting to investigate when the last true khachkar was carved. 1750s? 1800s? You find khachkar-like motifs on some horizontal gravestones from the 19th century, but that does not make them katchkars. The limited 19th or 20th century copying of historical examples also does not indicate their survival as a genuine living art form. Probably the lake Van region would have been the last area where true khachkars were produced, and votif carvings on church walls were maybe the last genuine examples.

[SevSpitak]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Intangible Cultural Heritage! Have you looked at the UNESCO flim-flam that explains what that phrase means? It seems than the French stuffing their faces with lots of French food counts as "intangible cultural heritage". Like everything in UNESCO, it is propaganda. They might as well list the French predisposition to have a once-a-year riot as an example of French "intangible cultural heritage"! The listing of khatchkars is another example that shows it is all propaganda. The ghastly eyesores, machine-cut monstrosites, that are produced in Armenia today have nothing in common with genuine khachkars. "Intangible Cultural Heritage" as UNESCO defines it has to be a living art form that is under danger of disapearing from modernisation or some other threat. In what way is the production of those modern lumps of rock in danger? (Are the customers for them going to have a sudden conversion to good taste perhaps?) Traditional khachkars are not examples of intangible cultural heritage as UNESCO defines it because they are already an extinct art form. Khatchkar production is not dying or under threat, it is already dead, and has been dead for the past 150 years.

Why are you lying through your teeth?

Simply because you decided that machine-cut khachkars are no longer considered "khachkars," it doesn't make it so. Although I agree most of them are not as beautiful as ancient ones, they are still khachkars, and no other nation makes them. In ancient times, they made khachkars as a religious ritual, and used stone only. Today, it's evolved into a unique cultural/traditional form of art made from various materials (stone, wood, glass, etc.), and is part of the essence of our identity as Armenians. If you don't like machine-made khachkars, then you can go ahead and look at modern hand-made khackars (these as masterpieces today as well). People still carve Khachkars every day in Armenia. One of my relatives in Armenia was a khachkar carver himself. Also, don't forget that khachkars are still used for their original purpose as gravestones in Armenia. So I'm curious to find out where you're pulling this bull xxxx that Khachkars are an extinct form of art.

The part where you fail is that you dismiss non-mainstream traditional practices as "extinct." Consider martial arts in Eastern Asia. Modern culture overwhelms it, but it's still widely practiced, and is far from being an "extinct culture." Initially, in ancient times, it was used for military reasons, today, it's for self-defense, hobby and health. The purpose of it changed, the way it is being practiced changed, its look changed, but it's still martial arts! Heck, there still are Samurais to this day in Japan! Simply because modernized culture overwhelms more remote, ancient traditional cultural practices it doesn't mean that they are extinct. You can consider them extinct if you want, but logic says that everything, from biology to cultural traditions evolve and modernize. Dreamcatchers are still made, lyres are still played, Strabo is still read, and Khachkars are still made!

[SevSpitak]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Off-topic for here, but it would be interesting to investigate when the last true khachkar was carved. 1750s? 1800s? You find khachkar-like motifs on some horizontal gravestones from the 19th century, but that does not make them katchkars. The limited 19th or 20th century copying of historical examples also does not indicate their survival as a genuine living art form. Probably the lake Van region would have been the last area where true khachkars were produced, and votif carvings on church walls were maybe the last genuine examples.

It depends one what you mean by "true khachkar." If by "true" you mean "ancient," then you must define when the time boundary is. Otherwise, my answer would be "today."

Also, I wonder if you realize what you just said. What were khackars in ancient times? Weren't they... um... "horizontal gravestones with motifs"?

[Yedtarts]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Intangible Cultural Heritage! Have you looked at the UNESCO flim-flam that explains what that phrase means? It seems than the French stuffing their faces with lots of French food counts as "intangible cultural heritage". Like everything in UNESCO, it is propaganda. They might as well list the French predisposition to have a once-a-year riot as an example of French "intangible cultural heritage"! The listing of khatchkars is another example that shows it is all propaganda. The ghastly eyesores, machine-cut monstrosites, that are produced in Armenia today have nothing in common with genuine khachkars. "Intangible Cultural Heritage" as UNESCO defines it has to be a living art form that is under danger of disapearing from modernisation or some other threat. In what way is the production of those modern lumps of rock in danger? (Are the customers for them going to have a sudden conversion to good taste perhaps?) Traditional khachkars are not examples of intangible cultural heritage as UNESCO defines it because they are already an extinct art form. Khatchkar production is not dying or under threat, it is already dead, and has been dead for the past 150 years.

This made me laugh so hard. Now it’s the antis, biases, turks and azeri will decide what is a Khachkar and what is not or what is a genuine khachkars and what’s not genuine, or yet, if production is dying or it is already dead, and it is them will tell us that it has been dead for the past 150 years. We Armenians know nothing about Khachkars, we only make them and see if it will pass the test of “bell the cat” or likes. Who are we to talk about khachkars?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r43Jgb_5Mlc

[SevSpitak]

Re: Armenia and the information war

This made me laugh so hard. Now it’s the antis, biases, turks and azeri will decide what is a Khachkar and what is not or what is a genuine khachkars and what’s not genuine, or yet, if production is dying or it is already dead, and it is them will tell us that it has been dead for the past 150 years. We Armenians know nothing about Khachkars, we only make them and see if it will pass the test of “bell the cat” or likes. Who are we to talk about khachkars?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r43Jgb_5Mlc

Yes, according to bell, all the khachkars we made/make in modern days are just wannabes. They're not "true" khachkars. Just like the modern statues (like the statue of liberty) are ancient Greek/roman statue wannabes.

[Federate]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Azerbaijan again spreads misinformation

November 19, 2010 | 17:30

On November 18, Azerbaijani APA agency disseminated misinformation, saying Permanent Representative of Tajikistan to the UN “voiced” the position of the Organization of the Islamic Conference on Nagorno-Karabakh. “The OIC opinion on Karabakh was raised by the Permanent Representative of Tajikistan to the UN who, as a chair of the OIC Conference Group in New York, recently addressed the UN Secretary-General and the President of the Security Council asking them to take into consideration the Dushanbe Declaration of the 37th session of the Council of Foreign Ministers of the OIC, held in May 2010,” the agency reported referring to the “UN News Center”.

Azerbaijan again spreads misinformation as Tajikistan and its representative, as a chair of the OIC Conference Group, neither “voiced” nor “asked to take into consideration” the OIC Dushanbe Declaration. Moreover, the agency cites “UN News Center”, which does not exist as such in the UN headquarters.

http://news.am/eng/news/38722.html