Armenia and the information war

[Qaradag]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Above article was stating that Karabakh was not a part of 1918-1920 Azerbaijan Republic, while it was.

[Federate]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Who cares about that?

Above article was stating that Karabakh was not a part of 1918-1920 Azerbaijan Republic, while it was.

No, it wasn't. You pulled a map out of your ass (synonym of the Azerbaijani government). Even incompetent PACE sees this.

[Joseph]

Re: Armenia and the information war

No, it wasn't. You pulled a map out of your ass (synonym of the Azerbaijani government). Even incompetent PACE sees this.

http://www.aysor.am/en/news/2011/01/28/pace-karabakh/

http://www.panorama.am/en/politics/2011/01/28/nkr-statment-chavushoglu/

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenia and the information war

how can you guys reject his retarded claim when he showed a very "legitimate" map. i mean its not like Armenia has countless maps where Artsakh is part of Armenia.



its a shame our map wasnt made by a little kid as well.


azerbaijan has disputes with everyone: Armenia, Georgia, Iran, Dagestan.

also those lands have always been disputed between both countries and the azeris just put those land when they tried to declare independence.

As for the position of the international
community regarding this issue, the Azerbaijani
Republic of 1918-1920 was never recognized by
the international community, and by the League
of Nations, in particular. The League not only
refused to officially recognize the Azerbaijani
Republic, but also its application for
membership. At its fourth meeting on December
1, 1920, the fifth Committee elected by the
Assembly of the League of Nations, having
examined the request for admission of the
Republic of Azerbaijan, arrived at the
following conclusion:
A. Within the content of Article 1 of the
Covenant of the League of Nations Azerbaijan can not be regarded as de jure a "full selfgoverning
State", as it had not been recognized
de jure by any member of the League of
Nations. Moreover, it was stated that the
territory of the Republic of Azerbaijan,
"occupying a superficial area of 40,000 square
miles, appears to have never formerly
constituted a State, but has always been included
in larger groups such as the Mongol or Persian
and since 1813, the Russian Empire. The name
Azerbaijan which has been chosen for the new
Republic is also that of neighboring Persian
province". Furthermore, the ability of the
government of Azerbaijan was questioned as to
whether it could undertake international
obligations and give guarantees required by
membership (3) (Annex2).
B. "...it is difficult to ascertain the exact
limits of the territory within which the
Government of Azerbaijan exercises its
authority. Owing to the disputes with
neighboring States concerning its frontiers, it is
not possible to determine precisely the present
frontiers of Azerbaijan. The provisions of the
Covenant did not allow the admission of
Azerbaijan to the League of Nations under
present circumstances(4)" (Annex 3).

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Azerbaijani hackers cracked Armenian website


January 28, 2011 | 23:28
New Armenian website Garabagh.org on Persian language was cracked by Azerbaijani hackers, Iranian Araks newspaper reported.

Most likely hackers disliked content of the website telling fair history of Nagorno-Karabakh Liberation War, the Armenian Genocide in Sumgait and Baku, as well as events in Khojalu.

The website representatives say it will soon be available again.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenia and the information war

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 BAKU 000134

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 02/24/2020
TAGS: PREL PHUM MARR ETRD AJ AM RS IR TU
SUBJECT: AZERBAIJANI PRESIDENT TO U/S BURNS: "YOU CAN'T
BOIL TWO HEADS IN ONE POT"

Classified By: Charge Donald Lu, for reasons 1.4 (b,d).


¶1. (C) Summary: President Aliyev used this coarse street
slang to describe the relationship between Russian President
Medvedev and PM Putin, but he might well have used the same
idiom to describe his concerns about Turkey-Armenia
reconciliation and the Nagorno-Karabakh (NK) Peace Process.
He told U/S Burns that the "Sword of Damocles" of the April
24 Armenian Remembrance Day is hanging over the NK Process,
as well as the Turkey-Armenia normalization process. He
suggested that it would be easier if the Turkey-Armenia
normalization could be considered after April in order to
allow more time for progress on NK. He also took the
opportunity to press the USG to apply maximum pressure on
Yerevan to make concessions on NK. He stressed, "Now we are
trying to be even more flexible."

¶2. (C) Summary Continued: On Iran, President Aliyev said he
supported economic isolation and believed it could be
effective if enforced by a broad coalition. He complained
about Iranian security provocations. On a proposed
battalion-sized Afghanistan contribution, Aliyev said that he
would support sending a team to Georgia to observe the
training being provided by EUCOM to Georgian troops headed
for Afghanistan. On energy cooperation, President Aliyev
said that if the Turks demonstrate "constructive behavior"
this year that a gas transit deal can happen. Finally, on
the jailed youth activists, though he made no firm
commitments regarding their release, he said, "I think (a
pardon or amnesty) can be done. I had no intention to hurt
anyone." End Summary.

Seeks Pressure on Yerevan to Resolve NK
---------------------------------------

¶3. (C) Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Bill
Burns began his hour-long meeting with President Ilham Aliyev
by stressing that he was sent with the simple message that
Washington wants to build our bilateral relations and create
a stronger partnership. He then offered his condolences for
the three Azeri soldiers killed on the Line of Contact on
February 18. Aliyev responded that such events show that
there is no peace, no peace treaty and no peacekeepers
enforcing the cease-fire. He worried more such incidents
could happen. Burns commented that such incidents
underscored the urgency of finding a political solution on
Nagorno-Karabakh.

¶4. (C) The balance of Aliyev,s comments sought to convey
that he was ready to move forward in the Minsk Group Process,
but that international pressure would be needed if Armenia
was to move forward. He said that it is now time to find a
final resolution, but Armenian President Sargsian wants to
walk away from the process. "I told the co-chairs that
Armenia wants to delay as long as possible and escape at the
end."" He said that Azerbaijan was prepared to do its part
to propel the talks forward. "Now we will try to be even
more flexible."

¶5. (C) Aliyev outlined several steps to persuade Armenia to
agree to the Minsk Group Basic Principles:

-- the three co-chair countries should consolidate their
efforts at a senior-level,

-- (C) the three co-chair countries should send a strong
message that the independence of NK is not under review, and

-- (C) if these new proposals are not accepted, there should
be consequences in terms of international isolation,
especially in the form of Russia,s curtailing some of its
economic support for Armenia.

¶6. (C) Aliyev noted that at Sochi, President Sargsian had
inserted a proposal for specifying a definite date for a
referendum or plebiscite on NK final status. This, Aliyev
argued, undermined the entire framework of the agreement,
which is premised on an eventual referendum ) with no
definite timeframe ) in exchange for legalizing "the
illegally established regime in NK."" He also noted that
Armenia is vulnerable to isolation because it is dependent
upon remittances from its diaspora, as well as imports of gas
and electricity. "After 18 years of negotiation, we have
tested all options. If this phase (of Minsk Group talks)
ends, what is next?" the President asked aloud.

The Russian Role in NK and Russian Succession

BAKU 00000134 002 OF 004


---------------------------------------------

¶7. (C) In response to U/S Burns' question about the Russian
role in the NK talks, Aliyev responded that he was convinced
that Medvedev's efforts have been sincere. He said that
Medvedev has personally met with the Azerbaijani and Armenian
presidents five times. Thus any failure to make progress on
this issue will damage Medvedev's credibility. He said that
at Sochi, Medvedev tried to persuade Sargsian to achieve a
breakthrough. He added, however, that it was strange that
with so much pressure from Moscow and Lavrov's visit to
Yeveran, the Armenians not only resisted progress, but
actually backtracked on previously-agreed items. In response
to a question, Aliyev said that he believes that PM Putin has
his own separate opinion about the desirability of an NK
resolution. "I have no evidence, but I can feel this,"
Aliyev remarked.

¶8. (C) Aliyev said that he considers Medvedev "a modern,
new-generation intellectual," surrounded by people whom he
does not control. He said that he has personally witnessed
Medvedev taking decisions that then required further approval
before they were implemented, referring specifically to a
border demarcation agreement that he had agreed with Medvedev
only to have it stymied by ""others,"" presumably in the
prime ministerial office. He added, "Many high-ranking
officials don't recognize (Medvedev) as a leader." He said
that there are signs of a strong confrontation between the
teams of the two men, although not yet between Putin and
Medvedev personally. "We have a saying in Azeri, 'Two heads
cannot be boiled in one pot'" (crude street slang suggesting
that two leaders are spoiling for a fight).

Strong Pushback on the Turkey-Armenia Normalization
--------------------------------------------- -------

¶9. (C) U/S Burns stressed that the U.S. believes that
progress on the Turkey-Armenia protocols could create
political space for Sargsian to be more flexible on NK. He
continued that the reverse was also true, that a failure of
the Turkey-Armenia process would almost certainly result in
serious negative consequences for the NK process. Aliyev
said that NK progress would require a minimum of five or six
months. He suggested that the entire Turkey-Armenia protocol
ratification process be delayed until after April 24. He
said that the "Sword of Damocles" of Armenian Remembrance Day
is hanging unhelpfully not only over the Turkey-Armenia
process, but also now the NK progress. "If there were no
deadline, maybe we could see how to combine our efforts (to
resolve NK)."

¶10. (C) Aliyev pushed back with his usual warnings about the
negative effects of Turkey-Armenia protocol ratification
without being proceeded by NK progress. He darkly predicted
postponement of any NK settlement; no comprehensive regional
security improvement; damage to Turkey-Azerbaijani relations;
no real partnership between Turkey and Armenia; further
isolation of Central Asia; the undermining of energy
projects; and damage to Georgia, both in lost transit income,
but also in its role as the sole land corridor between Russia
and Armenia.

http://wikileaks.ch/cable/2010/02/10BAKU134.html

[Odar]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Sargsian to be more flexible on NK

Like Abu Mazen?

[Qaradag]

Re: Armenia and the information war

how can you guys reject his retarded claim when he showed a very "legitimate" map. i mean its not like Armenia has countless maps where Artsakh is part of Armenia.

Even if we go to ancient times, Karabakh was part of Alban state, not Armenian. But no need to go that far back, lets go to times that has really a relevance. Karabakh Khanate for exampele. And I think it is a fact that Karabakh was a part of 1918-1920 Azerbaijan Republic.

Even if you go to middle-ages, the territority was under rule of several Azerbaijani Turkic dynasties.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Even if we go to ancient times, Karabakh was part of Alban state, not Armenian. But no need to go that far back, lets go to times that has really a relevance. Karabakh Khanate for exampele. And I think it is a fact that Karabakh was a part of 1918-1920 Azerbaijan Republic.

Even if you go to middle-ages, the territority was under rule of several Azerbaijani Turkic dynasties.

If you go back that far why not go back an other thousand years and see that the majority of the people living there has been Armenians living there and for the most part been a part of the Armenian kingdoms, even your precious Albania was ruled by Armenians one time or the other. How can you even make a connection between Albanians and Turkic Azeris (tartars) that are living there now?

Even in the 18th century when Russia moved first in the Caucasus the majority of the people living there were Armenians. So what are you talking about the majority of the people ruled that they don't want to be part of Azerbaijan, you have no legal reason to get a single inch of land back. And you don't have the power to take it.

[Qaradag]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Even in the 18th century when Russia moved first in the Caucasus the majority of the people living there were Armenians.

Even Russian census from 1900 states that majority of Yerevan consisted of Azerbaijani Turks. What are you talking about?