Armenia and the information war

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Death penalty for treason and collusion with enemies bent on our destruction... reinstate or not? Hmmm.

I say reinstate. For going against your country at a time like this, no matter what is offered to you. I dont understand how you would do this.

Also do you guys know how when talking to a Turk or azeri about the Armenian Genocide they always say the same thing: "When Erdogan asked Kocharyan to form a joint committee to discuss the events Kocharyan declined"? Well apparently Kocharyan didnt decline the offer, he replied in a letter to Erdogan a few days letter, wikileaks published the

YEREVAN, August 25 — WikiLeaks published a cable of the U.S. Embassy in Yerevan, in which it touches upon the letter of the then Armenian President Robert Kocharyan addressed to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan from April 25, 2005 and the comments of the Ministry of foreign Affairs of the Republic of Armenia.

The letter reads:

“Dear Mr. Prime Minister,

I received your letter. As two neighboring countries we should actually try to find ways to live together in harmony. That is the basic reason why from the very first day we gave you a hand to establish relations, open the borders and to establish a dialog between two countries and nations.

There are neighboring countries, especially on the continent of Europe, that had a hard past on which they have different views. Nevertheless, it didn’t prevent them from having open borders, normal and diplomatic relations, representatives in the capitals, even if they still keep on discussing their disputable issues.

Your proposal to address the past can’t be effective if it does not refer to the present and the future. To start an effective dialog, we should create a favorable political environment. The governments are responsible for the development of bilateral relations, and we have no right to delegate that responsibility to the historians. Thus, we have proposed and we again propose to establish normal relations between our countries without preconditions.

In this regard, an inter-governmental commission can be formed to discuss the outstanding issues to resolve them and mainatain mutual understanding.

Regards,
Robert Kocharyan.”

The non-official explanatory document that went with the diplomatic note reads:

“The content of the letter President Kocharyan received from Prime Minister Erdogan is not a new thing. The call upon the historians to discuss the events of 1915 is just another call Turkish administration makes each time they feel strong international interest and attention towards both Armenian Genocide and Genocide recognition.

It’s the first time such a written proposal was made at the highest level. That is why President Kocharyan responded to Prime Minister’s letter, despite the fact we are seriously concerned about its sincerity.

Several factors cause our concerns:

First, the letter appeared in Turkish media earlier than in Yerevan.

Second, it was immediately distributed in the U.S. Congress with the clear implication that the process of “rapprochement” and “reconciliation” is underway and that no U.S. action (for example, Congressional resolution) is needed.

Third, Turkish criminal code still provides for the punishment of any citizen who uses the term “genocide” in the Armenian context. And the proceedings against writer Orhan Pamuk and publisher Ragip Zaraoklu are still pending.

Fourth, in the middle of April the Turkish Parliament held hearings on the Armenian issue and issued a statement not only confirming their revisionist efforts but also openly calling upon third countries (for example, United Kingdom) to reprocess, review and revise their archives.

Nonetheless, President Kocharyan’s letter confirmed Armenia’s position — Armenia’s ready to discuss any issue at the intergovernmental level. The best way to do it is to establish diplomatic relations. Even if this goal is difficult to achieve, we can at least establish normal relations with open borders, free communication and travel between our countries and representatives.

Armenia has no preconditions for the establishment of relations and the opening of the borders. All the bilateral issues including Armenian Genocide can be discussed as soon as the relations are established.

Turkey uses three different excuses to explain why it keeps the borders closed. One of them is the fact Armenia insists on the recognition of Armenian Genocide. (The response of the Republic of Armenia is the following — Armenian Genocide recognition and remembrance is a moral issue, which cannot be dropped, however, the Republic of Armenia doesn’t make it a precondition for the establishment of relations.)

The second one refers to the fact that the Republic of Armenia did not confirm Turkey’s territorial integrity. (The response of the Republic of Armenia is the following — Kars treaty, which defines the current borders between Armenia and Turkey has neither been revoked, nor renounced. Other than that, no Armenian official has made territorial claims against Turkey.)

And the third one is the still unresolved Nagorno Karabakh conflict. (The response of the Republic of Armenia is the following — it’s a conflict with a third country, which has no relation with the establishment of our bilateral relations.)

We sincerely hope Prime Minister Erdogan will positively respond to Armenian President’s proposal to improve the relations, so that we manage to resolve the most complicated issues.”

http://www.yerevanreport.com/83181/wikileaks-publishes-robert-kocharyans-letter-prime-minister-erdogan/

[Mos]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Hang them in Republic Square.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Hang them in Republic Square.

Would that be before or after the trial?
Or would it matter, given the trial would be undertaken by a notoriously corrupt judicial system where verdicts are decided on before trials start. So I guess it comes down on whether you believe hanging people in public squares is a good thing or not.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Would that be before or after the trial?
Or would it matter, given the trial would be undertaken by a notoriously corrupt judicial system where verdicts are decided on before trials start. So I guess it comes down on whether you believe hanging people in public squares is a good thing or not.

We should learn from the West and other European countries. If somebody is working against the interest of our state we should:

1) Kill them and let the police, before even an investigation has started, say it was a normal death.
2) Execute them, using the electric chair.
3) Make them dissapear, nothing to be heard of them again.

These practices are a common thing among Western countries.

[arakeretzig]

Re: Armenia and the information war

To understand what these guys did, you need to understand the underlying psyche of human beings. It's not always black and white answer. People do things because they want something in return. Regardless of the economic hardship armenians live in, these guys could have had a hundred reasons to do this. There are such people in every country. what's the point in hanging them? If they didn't suceed in their mission now, there is a good chance they will do this again. since armenia has better things to spend its money on, these motherless xxxxs should be executed (if they were prepared to sell their methordland, you can sure as hell be sure they'd sell their mothers too for the right ammount of money).
Some people just don't deserve to live. period.

[TomServo]

Re: Armenia and the information war



Nevermind the trial. Most "Western countries" abandoned public executions because they discovered more effective (though not necessarily humane) approaches to punishment, rehabilitation, and intelligence gathering.

Armenian institutions are so retrograde they should just rename the country Erivan Khanate.

[retro]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Nevermind the trial. Most "Western countries" abandoned public executions because they discovered more effective (though not necessarily humane) approaches to punishment, rehabilitation, and intelligence gathering.

Armenian institutions are so retrograde they should just rename the country Erivan Khanate.

Although Armenia's delightful Muslim neighbours are intent upon exploiting Armenia's economic isolation and either overrunning or colonising Armenia. The Armenian states institutions are far from dysfunctional and Armenia's counterintelligence did well to unearth this Azeris operation.

Whilst naturally a great deal depends, on the level of threat to the state, that such people possess. It's perfectly acceptable to covertly extrajudicially kill traitors. However Armenia can make political capital out of this incident by putting these men on trial and clearly this is what they have elected to do.

I don't think that Armenia should not emulate the practises of repressive, less cultivated nations, by adopting more draconian laws. The problem with the death penalty is that it results in miscarriages of justice and in many nations it is widely subject to abuse.

Capital punishment in Armenia

The last execution in Armenia took place on the 30 August 1991; it was carried out by a single bullet. Death penalty remained a legal punishment for murder, treason, and serious crimes of a military nature, until its abolition in 2003.

In 2003 Armenia also ratified the Protocol No. 6 to the European Convention on Human Rights (the Protocol allows countries to retain death penalty for serious wartime crimes). Protocol No. 13 (concerning abolition of the death penalty under all circumstances) was signed in 2006; however, as of January 2008 Armenia has not ratified it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital...ent_in_Armenia

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenia and the information war

It's funny how Armenians think it's easy to fight the oligarchs and the corruption. Serge Sargysyan has been dismissing a lot of corrupt oligarchs and replacing them by technocrats, but it's not an easy job. The oligarchs could team up with other corrupt officials having influence in Armenia and oust Sargysyan out of office. This is why there needs to be evolution, and such a difficult task can not be accomplished within a short-period of time. It's a difficult game of chess, slowly eliminating your opponents and thinking 10-steps ahead of them.

If this is not enough to cope with, Sargysyan also needs to fight against anti-Armenian Armenians, and the self-destructive atmosphere which is prevailing in Armenia. And if this is not enough, he also has to deal with Azerbaijan and Turkey. And if this is not enough, the northern-neighbour is also anti-Armenian and the southern-neighbour is in big troubles. And if this is not enough, he also has to find a solution for the economy, but if this is not enough, the borders are landlocked, and if that is not enough, a lot of the economy is in control of a few oligarchs, and if that is not enough, a lot of oligarchs have a large influence, and if that is not enough, a lot of them are connected to one and another, and if that is not enough, he has to set them up against each other, and if that is not enough, he has to deal with American pressure, and if that is not enough... almost nobody supports him, as Armenians will never support any President, because are Armenians, and not Turks, and we all want to be our own President.

It's not an easy job.

Ter-Petrosyan woos PAP, warns it against forming election bloc with RPA

The leader of Armenia’s main opposition alliance has made overtures to a major pro-establishment party, implying that its current reported differences with the larger coalition partner meet his bloc’s interests.

Addressing supporters at a rally in Yerevan on Friday Armenian National Congress (ANC) leader Levon Ter-Petrosyan predicted more high-profile dismissals and resignations in the government, describing such developments as an indication of growing differences within the ruling coalition, in particular between the ruling Republican Party of Armenia (RPA) and its junior partner, Prosperous Armenia Party (PAP), led by tycoon Gagik Tsarukyan and believed to be ex-president Robert Kocharyan’s brainchild.

At the same time, Ter-Petrosyan urged the PAP to distinctly distance itself from the Kocharyan legacy, including the deadly suppression of the opposition’s street protests in 2008. He also warned the party against teaming up with the RPA at next year’s parliamentary elections, saying that in that case it will “lose its face completely”.

“Now it is difficult to predict how far the differences within the coalition will aggravate, but if it turns out that Prosperous Armenia genuinely intends to fight for free and fair elections, then in my opinion – I emphasize it that it is in my and not in the ANC’s opinion – the ANC should be ready to seriously consider the prospect and possibility of cooperating with it (PAP),” said Ter-Petrosyan.

The opposition leader’s remarks came against the backdrop of unconfirmed media reports about the PAP’s agreement to form a single bloc with the RPA to contest next year’s parliamentary elections.

In the past several months media have repeatedly speculated about growing differences between the two coalition partners as a possible indication of covert rivalry between incumbent president Sargsyan and his predecessor Kocharyan. The latest battleground for that perceived rivalry was the mayoral race earlier this month in the northern town of Ijevan where the PAP-backed candidate unseated the incumbent mayor who enjoyed the RPA’s support.

Some analysts described the PAP’s success in the small provincial town as an early indication of the party’s greater ambitions in the next parliamentary vote due in May.

Ter-Petrosyan denied the ANC had supported the PAP in the Ijevan race, as was alleged by some media. But he still refused to reprimand any of the ANC local chapter members who might have personally assisted the PAP campaign. He implied the struggle was against the regime and therefore was justifiable.

Meanwhile, the ANC presented what its coordinator Levon Zurabyan described as legal grounds for impeaching Sargsyan. The “Declaration” of legal reasons for Sargsyan’s resignation listed a dozen violations of the Constitution that the incumbent head of state had allegedly committed before and after assuming the presidential post.

Zurabyan said the ANC will pursue the case legally, with “mass protests” accompanying this legal battle. The oppositionist announced that one such street march will be staged on December 10, which is marked as International Human Rights Day.

[arakeretzig]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Ter-Petrosyan denied the ANC had supported the PAP in the Ijevan race, as was alleged by some media. But he still refused to reprimand any of the ANC local chapter members who might have personally assisted the PAP campaign. He implied the struggle was against the regime and therefore was justifiable.

I can't understand why a traitor like Ter-Petrossyan is still allowed to breath in Armenia? Everytime i see his face, i'm disgusted.. he reminds me of that other douchebag saakhashvili

[Mos]

Re: Armenia and the information war

So Ter-Petrossyan would be ready to cooperate and support Kocharyan? That's rather silly and absurd. I see Ter-Petrossyan becoming less important and Kocharyan becoming more prominent and eventually running against Sargsyan as Putin is coming back to power in Russia who is very close with Kocharyan.