Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

For small countries like Armenia with very little defense budget, we should always come up with unconventional concept for our defense.
Here is another concept since we are not developing our own UAV ... we might as well start manufacturing small planes (really small). Imagine these unites with Kevlar protection, they can reach speed of 150 MPH and if the fly at low altitude few hundreds of them could deliver a major damage to an advancing arm. We probably could manufacture these unites at around $20.000 each.




Noted French pilot Nicolas Charmont has installed 2 AMT Olympus
turbines in his Cri Cri together with AMT on-board automatic
start-up units and individual EDT's.
The Cri Cri weighs 170 Kg, and should have enhanced
performance withover 36 Kg of thrust available.
The Cri Cri has made his maiden flight in the weekeind of 7-8 March.
Top speed at this flight was 240 km/hour (150 mph). Flying with
only one engine the speed is still 160 km/hour (100mph).

http://www.amtjets.com/

http://www.flight.cz/cricri/english/cri-cri-photos-pictures-unsorted.php

http://flight.cz/cricri/english/cri-cri-links-contacts.php

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

And in your opinion, what is the best post cold war tank?

Al-Khalid · Ariete · Arjun · Challenger 2 · K1 88 · Leclerc · Leopard 2 · M1 Abrams · Merkava · PT-91 Twardy · T-84 · T-90 · TAM · Type 90 · Type 96 · Type 99 · Zulfiqar

The above is a list I got from wikipedia.

There is no such thing as the best tank in absolute terms. Instead of picking one, I will make your question un-answerable
Each one has strong and weak points. They are all designed for different sorts of wars in different places by different people using different tactics.

For example:
The Merkava is designed to fight best in the barren hilly terrain of the Golan heights.
The M1 Abrams is best for desert warfare in the Middle East.
The T-90 is in its element in the cold swampy areas of northern Europe and Siberia.
etc. etc.

At the end of the day, they all can destroy each other. The quality of the crew may determine the outcome.

Originally posted by Meline.

Could you please compare the Merkava (Israeli) and the Zulfiqar (Iranian). Thanks Zoravar

The Zulfiqar is based on the old American M-48/M-60. It is equipped with a Modern Russian gun and European sighting systems. The Iranians are improving it all the time and at the moment the 3rd version is being produced.
It is not as sophisticated as the Merkava which appears to be better on paper. But, once again, the context must be taken into account. What good is a Merkava in a terrain where there are lots of rivers to cross and the bridges can not sustain more than 45 tons....the Merkava can not ford (drive under water) and it weighs 65 tons. The 40 ton Zulfiqar will be able to use those bridges.

[Armanen]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

That's what I figured but I wanted to know if there was an overall "best" tank.

So if Armenia had millions of euros to spend on buying new tanks, which one(s) would you suggest from the list above?

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Leopard 2 is very good but because of our relations with Russia, the T-90 will be our inevitable and best choice.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t459NbF5Vek

[Armanen]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Leopard 2 is very good but because of our relations with Russia, the T-90 will be our inevitable and best choice.

Would the Leopard 2 perform well in the mountainous terrain of the Armenian Highlands? If we had the money to spend on top of the line tanks, I think we would be able to purchase any tank, not just a Russian tank because of our relations with them. The pakis are very close with the u.s. but they still buy a lot of arms from the Chinese.


Thanks for the link Azad.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Would the Leopard 2 perform well in the mountainous terrain of the Armenian Highlands? If we had the money to spend on top of the line tanks, I think we would be able to purchase any tank, not just a Russian tank because of our relations with them. The pakis are very close with the u.s. but they still buy a lot of arms from the Chinese.


Thanks for the link Azad.

The Leopard 2 is used in Afghanistan by Canadians, Germans, Dutch so it should be good for our mountainous territory as well. The Pakis and Chinese actually co-produce military hardware together but the US-Pak relations are not as solid as Armenian-Russian relations. I would still expect us to buy T-90s and nothing else.

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

So if Armenia had millions of euros to spend on buying new tanks, which one(s) would you suggest from the list above?

None.

Tanks are the best vehicles for a charge through enemy defenses at high speed with overwhelming firepower. When the breakthrough is achieved, infantry must move in as tanks are not very good in holding ground.
In the defensive role, tanks are just anti-tank guns with a role similar to anti-tank missiles. Once an attack has been repelled, tanks will be used for the counter-offensive.
Quite often, tanks are used merely as self-propelled artillery in direct fire support of the infantry.

Tanks are vulnerable in confined spaces such as urban areas and mountainous places. Nagorno-Karabagh does not have many open spaces for massive tank attacks. Most of the terrain is very ondulating and wooded.

Heavyweight tanks like the Leopard-2, Merkava and M1 are too large and too heavy (over 60 tons) for us. It will be difficult to conceal them, they will have a tough time negotiating the narrow roads and will present a king-size target to the enemy. Many roads and bridge will simply collapse under the weight of these behemoths. The somewhat smaller and lighter T-90 (at 46.5 tons) and the French Leclerc would be a bit more suitable for our needs, but they are still too much for my taste.

In an eventual renewed conflict in Artsakh, there will not be massive tank battles. These battlewagons will not be the main player in that kind of warfare. They will be used in smaller numbers in direct fire support missions against enemy positions. In most cases the infantry will move just ahead of the tanks.

What we need is something smaller, lighter and with great firepower. In this case "less is more".
My choice would be the new Russian SPRUT-SD light tank. It has the same gun as the T-90 with a smaller and much lighter body (18 tons). The only drawback is that it has thinner armour.


The SPRUT-SD

Back to reality.
We don't have the financial resources to make a massive armour purchase. So, here is my solution:
Just give me some old T-62 (or even T-55) tanks from the surplus Russian stocks and I will make them do 95% of the job that is expected from shiny brand new Leopard-2 or T-90 at only 5% of the cost.

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

For small countries like Armenia with very little defense budget, we should always come up with unconventional concept for our defense.
Here is another concept since we are not developing our own UAV ... we might as well start manufacturing small planes (really small). Imagine these unites with Kevlar protection, they can reach speed of 150 MPH and if the fly at low altitude few hundreds of them could deliver a major damage to an advancing arm. We probably could manufacture these unites at around $20.000 each.
..........

I am a supporter of unconventional warfare and I congratulate you for your creative thinking, but...this flying critter is unfortunately not the way to go.

Once you have a pilot in and fill the fuel tank up, your weapons payload is probably not more than 30 kgs (about the weight of a regular artillery shell). It will have difficulty flyind in bad weather, you will need to make pilots (costly) etc. etc. In addition, that thing is very vulnerable, I would not fly it against enemy positions...they can shoot me down with a simple hunting shotgun

[meline]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Back to reality.
We don't have the financial resources to make a massive armour purchase. So, here is my solution:
Just give me some old T-62 (or even T-55) tanks from the surplus Russian stocks and I will make them do 95% of the job that is expected from shiny brand new Leopard-2 or T-90 at only 5% of the cost.

Excuse me for interfereing in a male domain, but still what about our air force? Zoravar, you mentioned that in an eventual renewed conflict tanks will not have a major role to play. What about jet fighters? And what is the power ratio with the baboons there? (Not in terms of the proclaimed military budget, but in terms of effective fighters fit for battle)