Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

We are 9th in the world using up 6.5% of our GDP on defense expenditures. Armenia's GDP is 18.733 billion USD.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

We are 9th in the world using up 6.5% of our GDP on defense expenditures. Armenia's GDP is 18.733 billion USD.

Damn. That can't be right. Wonder why the Russians love Armenians... they are robbing them blind, lol.

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

A quick explanation:
Red : S-300V (SA-12 ) in Russian base near Gyumri
Red: S-300PT (SA-10) Near Yerevan and possible location in Artsakh
Orange : 2K12 KUB (SA-6) in Russian base near Gyumri
Purple: S-75 (SA-2)
Yellow: S-125 (SA-3)
Blue : 2K11 KRUG (SA-4)

Note that shorter range systems like the OSA (SA-8) are not shown.

You can add a dual position of S-75 (SA-2) on the north-east of Ashtarak.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Dark forest in the mountains-#1

Dark forest in the mountains-#2

Dark forest in the mountains-#3

Dark forest in the mountains-#4

Dark forest in the mountains-#5

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

..........
Depending on who you listen to, the number of aircraft ordered from Ukraine ranges from 25 to 50. However, all credible reports indicate that a total of 14 have reached Azerbaijan. These are second hand (built during the 80’s) ex-Ukrainian planes that have not been refurbished and /or modernized by the MiG factory prior to delivery to the Azeris. The inspection and refurbishing done by the Ukrainians was not at a good standard. Consequently 2 of these aircraft have crashed in accidents and we haven’t seen any further deliveries. The whole thing sounds like a corrupt and suspicious deal, the assassination of the Azerbaijan air force chief earlier this year may be related to this matter.

Yes I heard about this......they got taken to the cleaners.

-Some time ago, the Azeris have negotiated with Pakistan for the purchase of 26 JF-17, worth between 16 and 18 million dollars each. Nothing has been delivered…did they run out of cash? Or was this another corrupt deal?

-The whole fleet of older MiG-21 and SU-22 seems to be grounded permanently. These are very old aircraft whose airframes are probably no longer airworthy. There may be a couple of them that are still flying but they probably are more dangerous to their pilots than to an opponent.

-Only a handfull of MiG-25s are flyable (probably as little as 3). They are all built during the 70’s and don’t have much air time left.

- There are a dozen or so Su-24 fighter-bombers, but no more than 2 are ever seen flying at the same time. Maybe they don’t have enough qualified pilots for this aircraft. This type presents the most danger to us as it is a very capable plane. Fortunately, the Azeris do not have air launched smart bombs and missiles. They will have to use conventional types of weaponry.

This leaves their Su-25 ground attack planes to do the most of the job for them….and yes, that is exactly the same type of warplane that the Armenian Air Force uses.

So, practically speaking, their air force is much larger than ours …on paper. Practically, they are not that capable and any advantage that they have will be more than negated by our very capable air defense units....

Not so sure about this. Their capabilities are much more if you ask me and they do have quite a few operatonal Mig-29s, not mention contracts with Israel on several weapon systems including (not verified) on site UAV manufacturing.
Yes our air defense is impressive but it is only an air defense.........do we even have one Armenian Mig pilot? Will Russians pilots get on the offensive if need be?

Furthermore, Armenia's Armed forces may become politically unable to raise Artsakh's Flag from its Tanks if Armenia proper has not been attacked.


Bells:
You are right about Azeris always including Armenia and Russia in Artsakh's defense force but you are wrong about ZORAVARs intentions.

[ArmeniaR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

airdefence is verry important.

our su25 pilots will fly with the Migs if its neseccery.
but we got also many Armenian pilots in Erebuni airbase.(mi helicopters, paratroop aircrafts)

Mig29 are pure to fight with other aircrafts in the air.
and its good to suport the Su-25 in the air.
but if they are in the range of the airdefence. than its over for tham

but i don't think azerbaijan want to lose aircrafts for nothing + risk the pilots

http://www.armtown.com/news/en/yer/20070216/29176/

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

airdefence is verry important.

our su25 pilots will fly with the Migs if its neseccery.
but we got also many Armenian pilots in Erebuni airbase.(mi helicopters, paratroop aircrafts)

Mig29 are pure to fight with other aircrafts in the air.
and its good to suport the Su-25 in the air.
but if they are in the range of the airdefence. than its over for tham

but i don't think azerbaijan want to lose aircrafts for nothing + risk the pilots


http://www.armtown.com/news/en/yer/20070216/29176/

ArmeniaR: Thanks for the info. Good to know that Armenia’s pilot/ground crew training is growing because I think it is very important.
I guess what I am really trying to find out is that if a conflict irrupts and it was found necessary to neutralize ground targets inside Azerbaijan the SU-25s will need the Mig 29s escort. Will there be such a support?

I also understand the capabilities of these advance air defense systems but to say any aircraft airborne within range is a dead duck is kind of hard for me to swallow.

BTW, ArmeniaR……welcome to the forum.

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I also understand the capabilities of these advance air defense systems but to say any aircraft airborne within range is a dead duck is kind of hard for me to swallow.

The term "Dead duck" may be an exageration, but it does not necessary mean that the aircraft will be destroyed. It could mean its mission will be jeopardized. A more common term is "mission kill".
In other words, the attacking aircraft will be confronted with air defense batteries forcing it to take evasive maneuvers (to avoid the incoming surface to air missiles) and either miss its intended target or abort the mission entirely.
The role of anti aircraft defenses is often misunderstood. Its main purpose is to prevent the friendly forces and civilian assets from being bombed, if the enemy aircraft is shot down in the process, that is a bonus.

To illustrate things further, let us have a good look at the air defense units over Artsakh as per the map I posted.

In contrast to Armenia proper, Artsakh does not have startegically important targets to be bombed. Over there, the main mission of our air defenses will be to make sure that our army on the ground does not get hit from the air. That's why our defense units in that area are equipped with very mobile air defense systems that will constantly move with the army. Our troops will have an umbrella over them.

The Azeris do have the airplanes but they lack the sophisticated stand-off precision weapons to attack targets from a long distance. They also lack in air defense suppression measures. They will have to fly over Artsakh and bomb our troops either from high altitude or from low. That is why the bulk of our AD assets in Artsakh consist of the very mobile long range (70km) KRUG (SA-4) for high altitude and the short range (10km) OSA (SA-8) for lower altitude defense. For point defense we have the IGLA and STRELA shoulder carried MANPADS as well as the SHILKA mobile anti-air artillery.
Any Azeri aircraft that comes close will be engaged, harassed and shot at.

Having said all that, there is no such thing as an invincible and unpenetratable shield.
The Russians will not sell anything in advanced missiles and electronics to the Azerbaijanis. Ukraine's leftover (from Soviet times) precision guided weaponry are passed expiry date. That leaves Turkey and Israel as possible candidates to provide the Azeris with such systems... ZORAVAR will be keeping an eye on such developments.

[ArmeniaR]

You are totaly right ZOROVAR.

thanks.


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The NKR Defence Army is Efficient and is Well Experienced
The Minister of Defence of Azerbaijan S. Abiev has lately come up with another ridiculous announcement. With regard to this the correspondent of the ArmAr news agency has asked the RA Minister of Defence Seyran Ohanyan for a clarification.

- Mr. Minister, by interpreting the RA President’s visit to the frontier region and to Nagorno Kharabakh Republic, the Minister of Defence of Azerbaijan S. Abiev has announced that Serzh Sargsyan has no right to visit the NKR and that it is possible for that visit to be the last one.

- We understand Abiev’s strivings to see the desired as a reality. I advise him to interpret his country’s president’s visits. As for the RA President’s visit to the NKR, he may visit there at anytime. That’s the way it was, and that’s how it will be.

- Concerning the latest manoeuvres of the NKR Defence Army, Abiev has said that they “know everything and that the enemy cannot become active”. At the same time he has added, that the Azerbaijani armed forces are capable of freeing the so called “captive areas”.

- It is not the first time that the Azerbaijani military and political leaders come up with such unserious announcements. The manoeuvres held in the NKR have always been painfully accepted by them. Today the Defence Army is efficient and is well experienced. It has the modern armament and is ready to resist any assault. As for the announcements regarding the high fighting trim of the Azerbaijani army, I would not like to interpret them. I can only say that the efficiency of an army is not measured by idle announcements. I am sure that the Azerbaijani Minister of Defency is well aware of this.

http://www.mil.am/eng/index.php

[Muhaha]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

It would probably really tick them off if Serge just went to Artsakh for the fun of it and while he was there said "Here's another time".