Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Artashes]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Heart warming to see the diasporan generals return
To the homeland .
A word , a phrase , a sentence spokan at the right time can make a world of difference .
The value of experience can be invaluable . Those generals both individually and collectively obviously have a lot of experience , and I'm sure they spoke many words , phrases , ...
My opinion --- Armenia should open that airport in Artsahk and Russia should send its planes as the inaugural flights , plus sign a highly public agreement with Armenia / Artsahk for regular commercial flights .
There is a time for boldness . What are stones good for if you don't use um ?
Minnie turks cottoning up to US is actually a huge blunder on their part in my opinion .
The logistics from the USA to the occupied lands to our east is a nightmare . Not so with Russia.
And the US did what when Russia came rolling toward Georgia ? Answer -- talked
Artashes

[Sarkis86]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

azeris will hit russian pilots with russian s300....

That would be very tragic for the Russian pilots, but it would be suicide for azerbaijan. That would be in our favor.

On a separate note, if it is true I wonder why azerbaijan wants to purchase another S-300 battery. With all due respect to Armenia's Air Force and Pilots, I don't think Armenia's seventeen or so Su-25s mandate investing so many hundreds of millions of petrodollars in air defense weapons. Maybe they think they can aim at incoming Armenian missiles or helicopters?

Also, if the azeris shot down an Armenian civilian airliner, theoretical we could aim our S-300s at their civilian aircraft. This is an interesting development. If Artsakh succeeds in having a functioning civilian airport, it would further solidify Artsakh's status as independent from azerbaijan as a fait accompli, particularly in face of the extreme threats from an azerbaijan whose oil production seems to be on an irreversible slide downward.

[Haykakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The 300s in Azerbajian are there more for Iran then Armenia.

That would be very tragic for the Russian pilots, but it would be suicide for azerbaijan. That would be in our favor.

On a separate note, if it is true I wonder why azerbaijan wants to purchase another S-300 battery. With all due respect to Armenia's Air Force and Pilots, I don't think Armenia's seventeen or so Su-25s mandate investing so many hundreds of millions of petrodollars in air defense weapons. Maybe they think they can aim at incoming Armenian missiles or helicopters?

Also, if the azeris shot down an Armenian civilian airliner, theoretical we could aim our S-300s at their civilian aircraft. This is an interesting development. If Artsakh succeeds in having a functioning civilian airport, it would further solidify Artsakh's status as independent from azerbaijan as a fait accompli, particularly in face of the extreme threats from an azerbaijan whose oil production seems to be on an irreversible slide downward.

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

They sold Iran's S300's to Azerbaijan instead. Medvedev was weak.

[Sarkis86]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The 300s in Azerbajian are there more for Iran then Armenia.

In that case I say more power to azerbaijan! Let them go on a quest to "liberate" Tabriz. And while they're at it, let azerbaijan invest billions more into its navy to boot out their turkmen "brothers" from the oil and gas fields of the Capsian Sea. Hell afterwards they can try to take Degestan back from Russia. Makes Armenia's job a lot easier if Iran and Russia do all the heavy destroying for us!

[Mos]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

They sell to Azerbaijan meanwhile its allies and potential allies such as Syria and Iran are waiting for their own S-300s which Russia promises to sell and then cancels. It looks really bad for them, they are fostering a reputation of unreliable business partners let alone allies.

The fact is it's not very easy for Russia to sell S-300s to Iran or Syria at this point given the international pressure...especially to Iran.

Russia is selling to Azerbaijan because they want to keep a balance of power in the region. They don't want any side to have advantage because then a war will start. Russia and the other powers just want the status quo kept. It also keeps Russia in business.

[Vahram]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The fact is it's not very easy for Russia to sell S-300s to Iran or Syria at this point given the international pressure...especially to Iran.

They had the contract with Iran for a long time this is nothing new. They made a mistake and judged wrong, and are now doubling back. Moscow thought everything was under control, from Orange revolution to now they have be reacting. They were trying to sell the West on using Gabala for a shared early warning radar, the West screwed them and put missile shields not only where they wanted it but also lost Gabala in the process. They have been making too many mistakes and too many reactionary choices last minute. By the time they sprung the Syrian trap all Moscow had was a veto at the UN with China, shame if you think about it. They did all this and poured arms to the Azeri's.

[matrixfighter]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Russia has given Armenia large amount of weapons and equipment within last months - LIST - UPDATED
16 January 2013 22:05
New facts were revealed proving Russia, mediator in the settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, supplies Armenia with arms


Baku-APA. Russia continues supplying Armenia with arms.

Despite of repeated statements by a number of international organizations, including the heads of the OSCE Minsk Group to resolve the Armenian-Azerbaijani Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, the need to change the status quo, the deals and words of Russian Federation are contradictoriness, as continuing to supply Armenia with great number of arms and military equipment, thus Russia contributes to maintaining the status quo.

According to APA, between Russia and Armenia have realized air transfer of military equipment and weapons.

Within last some monthes Russia has given to Armenia the following weapons and military equipment:

Tank

- BMP-3;
- BMP-2;
- Command post vehicle P-149 based on the BTR-80;
- APC BTR-70/80;

Artillery

- 152 mm howitzer 2A65 "MSTA-B";
- 152 mm gun 2A36 "Hyacinth-B";
- Self-propelled gun 2S3M "Acacia";
- 300 mm, 240 mm and 122 mm rockets;
- 152 mm shells for artillery;
- 125 mm shells for tanks;
- 122 mm artillery shells for the D-30;
- 100 mm ammunition for the guns MT-12;
- Spare parts for artillery;
- Spare parts for artillery gun 2S3M "Acacia";

The air defense system

- Missiles 5B55K, 5B55R 5B55U and for S-300;
- SAM "cube" in the same division;
- 80 mm unguided rockets S-8;
- Controlled air missiles Kh-25ML;
- 57 mm unguided rockets S-5 with a block UB-20-57;
- Missiles R-60M;

- A large number of spare parts for machines and equipment;
- A large number of small arms, ammunition and engineering equipment.

apa.az

...

In a separate report, APA claimed that Russian shipped large quantities of weapons and military hardware to Armenia in the last several months. It listed specific armored vehicles, artillery and anti-aircraft systems and rockets along with ammunition for them.

Ohanian commented ambiguously when asked about the Azerbaijani report at a news conference in Yerevan. “I think that it does not correspond to reality also in the sense that they did not list all deliveries,” he said jokingly.

http://www.armenialiberty.org/conten.../24877603.html

... pay close attention to "300mm" under Artillery section -- we all know what that means, eh

plus there's BMP-3 in the list - something that Armenia has not hitherto had.

If these kinds of weapons have indeed been transferred to Armenia, then it's pretty much a *Game Over* for Azerbaijani hopes to regain control over Artsakh through military means.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Mi-35M deliveries to Azerbaijan are now at 16 delivered out of 36 ordered for their border guards.

[Mos]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

They had the contract with Iran for a long time this is nothing new. They made a mistake and judged wrong, and are now doubling back. Moscow thought everything was under control, from Orange revolution to now they have be reacting. They were trying to sell the West on using Gabala for a shared early warning radar, the West screwed them and put missile shields not only where they wanted it but also lost Gabala in the process. They have been making too many mistakes and too many reactionary choices last minute. By the time they sprung the Syrian trap all Moscow had was a veto at the UN with China, shame if you think about it. They did all this and poured arms to the Azeri's.

They got something better in return from the West for not selling the missiles to Iran. In the end, they will do what's in their national interests.

When it comes to weapon sales to Azeris...(1) it keeps them in business (2) keeps the military balance and hence their influence in the region is maintained (3) our borders don't open with Turkey/Azerbaijan which benefits Russia

Russia is a good friend and ally. But we mustn't fool ourselves. In the end, they follow their national interests, and if that means selling weapons to Azerbaijan, they will do it.