Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Just another jibberish.

Do you mean you disagree with the analysis? or through your blind loyalty cannot accept a new reality.

Right at the time of liberation of Shushi russians stopped turkish invasion of Armenia by a threat of WWIII and nucklear attack.

You are right but that was over 20 years ago.
History is frozen but politics is and has dynamics, interests and loyalties change.
Armenia has understood this by shifting its posture why can’t Russia.

Why would they spend all the money to keep thoose bases? And why europe does not see the necessity of russian bases there as a deterrant to war and invasion,

"empires" with ambitions outside their border are always opening bases and closing down not always considering the interest of the host country.
Russians have done a runner from Armenia before.
EU is another "independent" political entity it would be bizare to rely on Russia to look after its interests/resposibilities.

....similar to Nato bases in south korea because the war is not officially ended yet and especially turkish blockade is an act of war. So what makes this writer talk like this?

The US was part of the war Russia was not .. at least officially.
If the blockade was an act of why was there no war with Turkey.

Tere is the smell of money from europe and oligarkhs and their proteje's cannot keep to themselfs. Russian money is allready divided. European is smelling soo sweet. Anybody thinking that european association is going to bring prosperity to Armenians is daydreaming. All the money will be split, fraudulently swallowed up and flown to the accounts of oligarkhs in overseas(offshore accounts). Old or new, european money/rich ones, who don't give a xxxx about national security and will fly to europe in an instant, when a war erupts. We will be left alone...

At least we agree on something.
I would also add this is another kockup like the aborted Turko-Armenian friendship cooked by others and served by SS.

.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Do you mean you disagree with the analysis? or through your blind loyalty cannot accept a new reality.



You are right but that was over 20 years ago.
History is frozen but politics is and has dynamics, interests and loyalties change.
Armenia has understood this by shifting its posture why can’t Russia.



"empires" with ambitions outside their border are always opening bases and closing down not always considering the interest of the host country.
Russians have done a runner from Armenia before.
EU is another "independent" political entity it would be bizare to rely on Russia to look after its interests/resposibilities.



The US was part of the war Russia was not .. at least officially.
If the blockade was an act of why was there no war with Turkey.



At least we agree on something.
I would also add this is another kockup like the aborted Turko-Armenian friendship cooked by others and served by SS.

.

First, my blind loyalty is to my country , my friend. Second, nothing is changed in 20 years, the enemy is the same, the conflict and players are the same.

Third, nothing is new about Armenia/russia relations either... Time to time our leaders smell opportunities from somewhere. Be it in 1840's, 1860"s, 1870"s, 1919, 1965, lathe 70's or now. Play freedom and justice loving martirs for fatherland, and then when xxxx hits the fan and the bear gets angry, they sink their heads and kiss russia's behind like never before. But at the end we pay dearly for our actions. Just the word "kars treaty" should tell you something...

[Mher]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Just another jibberish.
Right at the time of liberation of Shushi russians stopped turkish invasion of Armenia by a threat of WWIII and nucklear attack. Why would they spend all the money to keep thoose bases? And why europe does not see the necessity of russian bases there as a deterrant to war and invasion, similar to Nato bases in south korea because the war is not officially ended yet and especially turkish blockade is an act of war. So what makes this writer talk like this?
Tere is the smell of money from europe and oligarkhs and their proteje's cannot keep to themselfs. Russian money is allready divided. European is smelling soo sweet. Anybody thinking that european association is going to bring prosperity to Armenians is daydreaming. All the money will be split, fraudulently swallowed up and flown to the accounts of oligarkhs in overseas(offshore accounts). Old or new, european money/rich ones, who don't give a xxxx about national security and will fly to europe in an instant, when a war erupts. We will be left alone...

You are driven far too much by rigid and unfounded loyalty to see things for what they are. It is reasonable to argue that for the foreseeable future Armenia needs Russia's military support. But the argument that somehow the charade that is the "Eurasian Union" is in any way a viable alternative to the European Union, and what the EU could bring is just ridiculous.

The argument that somehow a future alliance with a band of nations of dictators and dismal economies surviving solely through commodity production and oil revenues is the way forward for Armenia is laughable.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You are driven far too much by rigid and unfounded loyalty to see things for what they are. It is reasonable to argue that for the foreseeable future Armenia needs Russia's military support. But the argument that somehow the charade that is the "Eurasian Union" is in any way a viable alternative to the European Union, and what the EU could bring is just ridiculous.

The argument that somehow a future alliance with a band of nations of dictators and dismal economies surviving solely through commodity production and oil revenues is the way forward for Armenia is laughable.

What is this talk about "loyalty"???? Have I hit a wrong button by talking about reality the way I see?
I don't care about Eurasian union or European union. I don't care about who's dictator and who's democrat. I am talking about our phisical existence.
Number one, can you guys put down one by one "what will " europe bring to Armenia? Then lets see if it is so secure and solves Armenia/turks problems. I don't care if it is african union (which by the way may be thrown at us in one fine day too). I need one thing only. To see Armenia safe and secure with turks bowed their heads down and never threatening us with annihilation again.
I don't care if Europe sprinkles us with gold or makes us as free as the people in san francisco. I want to see what really, besides promises, is there to guarantee my existence so I could kick russia out. Meanwhile, excuse me if I am not a full believer in europe. I don't like to be left between russians and turks after great european associacion experiment is over.
To be honest, we don't need any associacions at all, since they are BS. We need to clean our house from inside first.

[Mher]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

What is this talk about "loyalty"???? Have I hit a wrong button by talking about reality the way I see?
I don't care about Eurasian union or European union. I don't care about who's dictator and who's democrat. I am talking about our phisical existence.
Number one, can you guys put down one by one "what will " europe bring to Armenia? Then lets see if it is so secure and solves Armenia/turks problems. I don't care if it is african union (which by the way may be thrown at us in one fine day too). I need one thing only. To see Armenia safe and secure with turks bowed their heads down and never threatening us with annihilation again.
I don't care if Europe sprinkles us with gold or makes us as free as the people in san francisco. I want to see what really, besides promises, is there to guarantee my existence so I could kick russia out. Meanwhile, excuse me if I am not a full believer in europe. I don't like to be left between russians and turks after great european associacion experiment is over.
To be honest, we don't need any associacions at all, since they are BS. We need to clean our house from inside first.

With or without physical annihilation, Armenia is being annihilated anyways. Without breaking down of the family unit, the family unit has broken down.
Because the population of Armenia is free-falling. Armenia won't have to be destroyed, when there's no Armenians left in Armenia, and it's just a Russian military outpost.
How about stop worrying about military annihilation, and worry about the population not dwindling down to zero, and about improving Armenia's economy to where its self sustaining.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

With or without physical annihilation, Armenia is being annihilated anyways. Without breaking down of the family unit, the family unit has broken down.
Because the population of Armenia is free-falling. Armenia won't have to be destroyed, when there's no Armenians left in Armenia, and it's just a Russian military outpost.
How about stop worrying about military annihilation, and worry about the population not dwindling down to zero, and about improving Armenia's economy to where its self sustaining.

So, in europe the families are in great shape ha?
You say to worry about improving Armenia's economy, great, which is more important then, talking about europe or getting rid of domestic oligarkhy? Since in my opinion anybody that wants to improve Armenia's economy should start a struggle to get rid of corruption and shadow economy first.
If the EU idea is circulated by some oligarkhy then isn't it abvious that we're screwed one way or another. Maybe it's better to stop jerking russia's tail so if there is some left in Armenia, they can still live there.
If "Europe" idea is circulated by liberals, then isn't it better to come up with a viable opposition first, that people can trust?
Somehow I see European associacion being pushed by some in hopes of getting rid of karabakh issue safely with the help of west as it is abvious that russia is going to keep it alive in the future for some time. Then maybe the border with turkey can be opened (of course first getting rid of russian contingents) and "money will flow". This is in works for many years. But, I would like to know, will we have to accept that genocide never happened, in order to normalize relations with turkey, since we cannot swing our arms at turkey from europe's back like we do now?
When will people see that bad economy in Armenia is mostly because of corruption and some bad soviet left over mentalities more then foreign partnerships?

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

just another observation people. Despite this emigration drainage, the homes are in very short supply in Armenia and new families can allmost forget about buying one reasonably. That means people still keep their homes in the hopes of returning soon.
They left because of corruption and lawlessness. If there'd be a really honest, free and open government there, they will return and revive the economy no matter russia, europe, or who ever is our partner. All the problems are coming from within us, over there.

[davidoga]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

My two cents:

All this complaining about ending corruption is pointless. Yes it is by far the largest issue, but to say "we need to get rid of corruption" has no value at all.

This is my idea: make every effort to open border with Turkey without compromising values. I think it's possible for this to be done, especially after 2015. Transportation costs will go down, Armenian goods will have access to larger markets (Turkey and Europe), standard of living will increase, and thus emigration will decrease.

With regards to corruption, I see two problems. 1. Certain companies are allowed to monopolize unfairly, thus driving up the prices for goods and reducing variety in the market. BUT, they are only able to do this because there are no other companies! Nobody forces Armenians to buy from them, they just have no other choice. Instead, open border to Turkish firms and Armenian businesses will have to keep their prices competitive.

2. The police force (though this nothing to do with border opening). In this regard, the only solution I see is for a new, authoritarian figure as president. He should double police salaries,so that nobody can make the excuse that corruption exists because they do not make enough, but make it clear that inconsistent application of the law or bribe-taking equates to life in prison.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I think change from within is possible. We saw the young people in no 100 dram campaign. We need the opposition to clean up and organise. Election by election from smallest position to presidency. Keep ranks clean of carierists and corrupt people.
Win the parliament and presidency and make the changes.