Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Bad news, Azerbaijan refusing to allow OSCE access to helicopter crash site. Something small like this can accidentally launch a new war where an Armenian military rescue effort comes under fire from Azeris & we shoot back.

[Chubs]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Bad news, Azerbaijan refusing to allow OSCE access to helicopter crash site. Something small like this can accidentally launch a new war where an Armenian military rescue effort comes under fire from Azeris & we shoot back.

That wouldn't launch a war, but rather a series of border skirmishes. What are they rescuing? The pilots are most likely dead. They are not going to risk the lives of soldiers to recover a few charred corpses. They are just going to wait another week, to recover those poor victims, or at least until Azerbaijan decides to stop wasting ammunition. The OSCE reps are patient people, but what we can do is have them publicly condemn Azerbaijan, taking them away from their neutral stance in this dire situation. A war wont be triggered over a helicopter wreckage and 3 bodies, now if that was a civilian airliner, and the weapon was advanced missile systems..then we would have a real problem. Armenia does need to retaliate when the time comes, but sending tanks and BMPs to capture a destroyed helicopter, that poses no threat to Armenia or NKR, is pointless and will trigger more violence.

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[ArmeniaSacra]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I dont think we are doing enough politically...we should at least put all negotiations on hold and ask the inclusion of Karabakh in the negotiation process...we're just sitting there!!! I understand the military response will take time...but we could do much more noise politically and in much faster means...our diplomatic strategies have a lot of updating to do..,this is just disgracefull

[Haykakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I dont think we are doing enough politically...we should at least put all negotiations on hold and ask the inclusion of Karabakh in the negotiation process...we're just sitting there!!! I understand the military response will take time...but we could do much more noise politically and in much faster means...our diplomatic strategies have a lot of updating to do..,this is just disgracefull

I agree that politically we do not do enough in these situations. I also think there needs to be a response plan in place for such incidents. Whatever harm they do to us we must unleash a much greater degree of destruction upon them to generate a deterrence effect. Shelling their positions with artillery seems like a good idea to me. I think the Azeris want to restart the war so i say slaughter as many of them as you can while they are laying there right on the border. They keep providing us with justifications to use force so i say we hit them where we will do most damage..we are obviously still at war and we need to act like it so long as our enemy wants to fight.

[gokorik]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

No, I see them at 500-400ft (152meters) altitude above terrain and airspeed not much more than 80 knots....once hit in thre cabin the fire would have reached the flying pilot. I see the helicopter descending at a rate of 700 ft/min in a shallow turn (5 to 15 degrees).
My point is it doesn't matter where the aircraft crashed but where it was hit.

Watch the video. It takes 4 to 5 seconds from the point the missile impact, to the helicopter hitting the ground. I know you can't directly see the ground where the helicopter crashed, but you can gesstimate based off the fireball . Your saying the rate of decent is 700fpm so that's about 12ft a second. How could they be flying at an altitude of 400-500ft if their rate of decent is 12ft/s, and they fall for 5 seconds?
When I guessed they were flying at 50 meters, I took the known length of a mi-24(17.5meters or 57ft) and tryied to judge how many helicopter lengths the helicopter was from the ground, before being hit. Take a look at it. If they were flying at 400ft the helicopter would be about 7 full lenghths away from the ground. It doesn't look like 7 lengths to me.

Also t\your link is funny......NAP OF THE EARTH? lol, its map of the earth not nap. You take a nap you die flying tree tops bellow canyons, ect. You need to know that the Armenian choppers were not flying under the Radar, map of the earth.

It's not something I came up with. Type "map of the earth flying" in Google and see what comes up.

I never claimed that....the 500 figure is altitude not distance covered over ground.

Ok. If you read your last post I was quoting you can easily interpret it both ways. Post 17527

[gokorik]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I never said I dont doubt the official story, I have my doubts about what the MoD is telling us. I sincerely do not believe that it fell 20 meters from an Azeri position. Im pretty sure they weren't all huddled together in one space if they knew there was a hostile heli flying above their heads, they would get int their positions and engage it. Which leads me to wonder why to helicopter wasn't taking small arms fire, or maybe even fire from a KORD/NSV????

The only way to know what happened, is to know if that trench the footage and missile was fired at, was the frontline trench. To me, it sure does look like it was on the frontline.

(I am actually wondering why the helis were flying in formation, and not taking fire from small arms if they were over an Azeri trench??? That makes no sense, I would fire everything I had into that thing, any anti-aircraft gun at my disposable would have been firing, at those helis. And those helis wouldn't have been in formation if they were taking fire. The official Azeri narrative is fabricated, and not true. Now the question is, is the Armenian one the same? Were those helis unarmed?

You have a point, since that would give them a motive to lie about it location. But why involve the Red Cross if the heli fell in Armenian territory, and you are trying to cover up the fact that the helicopters were armed. I would think the last thing you would want to do if your trying to hide the wreckage is involve authorities of any type. Still I see your point.

[Etchmiadzin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Posted on Trend.az


The coordinates to this place is 40° 2'11.06"N 47° 0'9.25"E Down to the right there is a grey sqaure that might be the roof from where the video of the crash was shot.

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Are there any plans to acquire new equipment for the airforce? Is there any chance to get migs from the russian airbase? The armenian air force is not growing like it should.

[Chubs]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Posted on Trend.az


The coordinates to this place is 40° 2'11.06"N 47° 0'9.25"E Down to the right there is a grey sqaure that might be the roof from where the video of the crash was shot.

Was there any third party verification of this? Considering it was from trend.az, gonna need some actual verification of what they are saying. (They might as well say an SU-25 shot down MH17) On top of that, we still need to know if that trench was the frontline, or a secondary trench.

This doesn't even correspond with the 20m claim lol.

My question is, does trend.az know that the helicopter was flying in formation and not taking small arms fire? Why does Azerbaijan block access for the OSCE if they have nothing to hide? (Still going to need a source on that)

Are there any plans to acquire new equipment for the airforce? Is there any chance to get migs from the russian airbase? The armenian air force is not growing like it should.

Planes and helicopters are expensive so, no.


Found the trend.az article:

Taking into account that the Armenian side is manipulating the information on the incident, and given the fact that flights over Azerbaijan’s occupied territories are banned, and uncoordinated flights over these territories are considered as a violation of Azerbaijan’s airspace, the ministry stated that the enemy helicopter that opened fire on Azerbaijani positions, was destroyed by a retaliatory fire.

Yes, even flying in NKR justifies your death and destruction, yea!

Sometimes I think these people forget there is a video...