Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[UrMistake]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

If not then theyshould let the red cross or whatever to go in and find the supposed bodies , or at lest show some pictures of the helicopter to debunk the armenian side and show how much close is it to the azeri side.... I say they like to talk but they do xxxx to act .those venomous snakes they did shot it down they killed officers but they have the nerve todeny and go technical on their deaths.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

If not then theyshould let the red cross or whatever to go in and find the supposed bodies , or at lest show some pictures of the helicopter to debunk the armenian side and show how much close is it to the azeri side.... I say they like to talk but they do xxxx to act .those venomous snakes they did shot it down they killed officers but they have the nerve todeny and go technical on their deaths.

If they admit Armenia retrieved the bodies then it will be catastrophic for them. People will begin to wonder how Armenian forces were able to sneak into neutral territory without being detected?

[Chubs]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

azeris talking out of their asses again. This azeri is an expert and is unbiased so we have to believe him. It's not like azeris have lied before.

Azerbaijani Defense Ministry exposes the lies of Armenians (photos) (video)
November 23, 2014, 20:21

Military-political regime in Armenia raises around downed Armenian military helicopter hype to attract the attention of the international community, as well as to reassure his people. But at the same time, the Armenian side is steadily spreading disinformation to confuse the facts and trying to find justification for their acts, haqqin.az reported the press service of the Ministry of Defense.

"Azerbaijani Defense Ministry once again said that the information distributed in the Armenian media about the removal of the remains of the crew members and some parts of the helicopter, as well as held for this purpose a special operation by the Armenian side, is fiction and has no reason to. This information is intended to divert attention Armenian people, "- said in a statement.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2847[/ATTACH]


The report said that the experts on aviation in one voice say, that provided by the Armenian side frames are professionally trained in video editing.

It is hard to imagine what state the bodies could be handed over to their relatives. With the explosion and hit the ground combat helicopter Mi-24, the bodies of those on board the pilots should have come to such a state that they can not show the public.

It is impossible that the body of the pilot, crashed on the 11-ton car, hitting the ground at a speed of 250 km / h, it was in such a state, it shows how the Ministry of Defense of Armenia.

When the human body burns, its different parts begin to deform. It is impossible that the dead body of the pilot is in a perfect horizontal position, as seen in the video footage disseminated by the Armenian side. This may confirm any pathologist.

Experts also doubt that the presented video footage military uniform pilots corresponds to the form that puts the crew of the Mi-24.

Aviation expert questioned the authenticity and almost perfectly preserved parachute. Helicopter after being hit by missile complex "Igla" fell to the ground only 3-4 seconds, then exploded and burned. The helicopter crew just physically could not eject during these few seconds. Therefore, the version of the bailout Armenian pilots does not hold water. In addition, the parachutes are made of nylon bystrovosplamenyayuschegosya, and they could not survive in the form in which are shown on a propaganda video of the Armenian side.
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All these facts lead to the conclusion that provided by the Armenian side motion pictures have nothing to shoot down the helicopter.

Help an expert in the field of military flights:

- Combat helicopter Mi-24 is not equipped with ejection system;

- To the crew was able to leave the faulty machine, provided equipment helicopter crew parachutes, and the commander of the machine and the operator provided parachutes-4 (C-4U), and mechanic - parachute PN-58;

- The crew leaves the unmanaged native command commander in the following order: the operator, mechanic and the last car leaves the commander;

- Terms of evacuation of the helicopter following: Operator - through an access hatch, mechanic through the cargo door on the left side of the machine, the crew commander - through an access hatch;

- If the altitude does not exceed 130 meters, the crew does not wear parachutes;

- When the flight speed of 202 km / h for the deployment of the parachute required height should be at least 60 meters.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2848[/ATTACH]


In this video you can see that after the shot was a powerful explosion, and then the helicopter for 3-4 seconds fell to the ground. To pilot recovered from the shock when hit missiles and decided to eject, you need at least 7-10 seconds of time.

Given all this, we can safely say that the approval of the Armenian side, as if the corpse is shown the dead pilot, nothing more than nonsense and nonsense.

After all, it is necessary to take into account the following human factors:

-from the blast wave hit by a rocket pilot falls into shock;

- Only take place after the shock, the pilot must make the decision to evacuate in extreme conditions, while observing all safety precautions.

Do not forget about the other important technical factors:

Warhead man-portable air defense systems (MANPADS) type "Igla" weighs 1.5 kg and packed with shrapnel. If we start from video frames provided by the Armenian side, it can be concluded that the point of the explosion occurred directly overhead crew commander. In this case, the likelihood that the body of the crew members are not burned by the explosion is zero. Even if we assume that some of them were thrown from the helicopter blast, fire the same blast wave would have resulted in their bodies unrecognizable appearance. It is impossible that the body of a pilot survived in the form in which it is represented by the Armenians.

These people can't be that fking stupid...Oh my god..

Armenian side frames are professionally trained in video editing.

Of course, those sneaky Armenians used photoshop.

It is hard to imagine what state the bodies could be handed over to their relatives. With the explosion and hit the ground combat helicopter Mi-24, the bodies of those on board the pilots should have come to such a state that they can not show the public.

This is an Mh17 victim. These people had their plane ripped to pieces mid air, fell 33,000 feet, and were caught in a fiery explosion. What the hell are these Azeris talking about? (NSFW)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/flight-mh17-crash-photos_n_5595830.html

In this video you can see that after the shot was a powerful explosion, and then the helicopter for 3-4 seconds fell to the ground. To pilot recovered from the shock when hit missiles and decided to eject, you need at least 7-10 seconds of time.

It never occurred to them, that if a xxxxing teddy bear can survive a plane crash and explosion, than a military grade parachute might have been able to survive a helicopter shoot down, around 500ft over the ground.

In not one article, did Armenian media claim he xxxxing ejected from an Mi-24

It is impossible that the body of the pilot, crashed on the 11-ton car, hitting the ground at a speed of 250 km / h, it was in such a state, it shows how the Ministry of Defense of Armenia.

Yes, its truly amazing how the bodies of Mh17 victims, were not incinerated. Must have been the Armenian shekels that saved them.


I guess it never occurred to them, that the operators were only able to recover the remains required for identification for the other two pilots.

Im no expert, but this body looks pretty burned to me, he even has some..kind of strange liquid covering his pants..

Experts also doubt that the presented video footage military uniform pilots corresponds to the form that puts the crew of the Mi-24.

This is the dumbest of them all, they somehow knew that the Armenian airforce has a standard uniform. Which they do not, as seen in photos ON THIS FORUM. They wear various different types of camos, overalls, etc. Are these people serious? I mean, do they know they are writing bullsht, or do they really mean, what they write? There is no way, a human being, or a group of them, can be this fking retarded. No way, absolutely no way.

This is their entire article summed up in a sentence

Heey guise, no way man that body couldn hev survive dat explozon dude. And dat parachut, they werent able to ejectt dude, wot m8. I knew mh17 but leik its leik armenian so leik they burn faster its like chiken.

[Ak105]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Did u guys think they'll torture the azeri who shot the chopper down if they catch him? I hope they do.....

[Chubs]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Did u guys think they'll torture the azeri who shot the chopper down if they catch him? I hope they do.....

Why would they torture this guy? Being homosexual in the post-Soviet space is torture enough...

(See what I did there? )

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Military pilots wear a flight suit that is made of NOMEX which is very resistant to heat/fire. You can see our pilots hands were burned badly.....he was not wearing the nomex gloves and hood so the Azeri argument is as always bulldust.

A fire like that would have taken all the oxygen out of the air and you end up breathing fire which them burns your lungs no matter how protected you are and even if you were on O2 mask on, the fire is in your face. RIP

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Chubs]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Active clashes between Armenian and Azerbaijani forces over control in the area of the downed helicopter in the Karabakh frontline appear may be over, but questions still remain regarding how the incident will impact the overall situation in the conflict zone and the internationally mediated settlement process.

On the night of November 22 Karabakh commandoes conducted a special operation to recover the bodies of three pilots of the Mi-24 helicopter that Azerbaijan shot down on November 12 while it was operating a training flight near the eastern section of the Line of Contact.

As the downed helicopter fell in the so-called neutral zone, neither party could approach it because of intense fire. Azerbaijan ignored the calls of the international mediators who urged it to give the Armenian side access to the wreckage to be able to recover the pilot bodies. The standoff continued for nearly 10 days and led to the special operation in which the Armenian side said at least two Azerbaijani soldiers were killed. Baku denied suffering any casualties.

Meanwhile, neither the OSCE Minsk Group co-chairs nor other international organizations have either condemned or showed any other reaction to the recovery operation conducted by the Karabakh forces. The lack of any reaction may be evidence of the mediators’ having been aware of the planned operation or their approving it afterwards.

Anyway, the November 12 incident has raised a number of questions in the Armenian society. First of all, what is the freedom of action of the Armenian and Azerbaijani armies in conditions of the 1994 ceasefire and do the international mediators have any leverage at all for solutions to at least humanitarian tasks?

As it turned out, international instruments are practically absent, and the Armenian army fully realized that it would have to solve problems on its own.

Secondly, as it turned out, there is not even the minimum legal basis in the Armenian-Azerbaijani armistice. The May 11, 1994 agreement only contained a provision on ceasefire and was to have been confirmed by a military-technical document the following day. However, no such document was signed on May 12 during a meeting hosted by the defense minister of Russia and attended by the defense ministers of Armenia and Azerbaijan and the commander of the self-defense forces of Karabakh. Russia demanded the introduction of its troops for separating the conflicting parties, but Azerbaijan refused to sign such a document.

Since then, no document has been signed that would define the obligations of the parties and the international community. The OSCE Minsk Group, which was established in 1992, has a purely political mandate. And its monitoring group only registers the situation without having a mandate for intervention or assistance in humanitarian issues.

Thus, Armenian analysts conclude that the uniqueness of the Karabakh conflict is that the Armenian and Azerbaijani sides prefer periodic localized clashes to the introduction of forces of a third country and the strengthening of the role of mediators.

Experts also note that the operation of the Armenian special forces raised the Armenian army to the level of the most independent and efficient army at least in the region. The high combat readiness of the Armenian army has been recognized by international experts also before, but this time the army has also proved that it will not look at foreign players and will perform its tasks.

In this context, a change in the role of the Armenian army in Armenia’s foreign policy is pointed out. Defense Minister Seyran Ohanyan has repeatedly stated that the Armenian army does not need “other forces” in order to maintain peace in the region. Meanwhile, Armenia continues negotiations on the basis of the so-called Madrid principles of settlement, which imply that some international peacekeeping force will be introduced into the region to enforce the possible peace treaty.

Experts in Armenia note that the factor of foreign-policy independence of the Armenian army makes it possible to maintain the military-political balance and relative stability in the region.

http://armenianow.com/commentary/analysis/58695/armenia_karabakh_azerbaijan_operation_helicopter

Thats actually a pretty good analysis from armenianow


Funeral pictures: http://armenpress.am/eng/news/785240...elicopter.html

The special operation to recover the bodies and remains of Armenian helicopter crewmembers was carried out by a group of four commandoes. The operation featured three different types of aerial devices, one of which was employed for the first time ever.
According to political scientist Hrant Melik-Shahnazaryan, who discussed the special operation carried out by Nagorno Karabakh Republic Defense Army Special Forces few days ago at a press conference, the operation was «carefully planned» and «masterfully implemented».

«A huge work has been done. I know that at first a thorough recoinassance of the terrain was done, the enemy's positions were discovered, the traps and numbers of soldiers [on the other side], as well as the level of their ammunition was considered. The territories were demined in order to enable them approaching the helicopter. The operation was outlined; starting November 20 it was continuously implemented [in phases] to have a splendid outcome at the end. The guys on the frontline ensured the successful accomplishment of the operation by our four commandoes», - said Hrant Melik-Shahnazaryan, unveiling some details of the operation carried out by Nagorno Karabakh Republic Defense Army Special Forces, adding that further details may be added only by the Defense Ministry.

Melik-Shahnazaryan added that during the operation around 5-7 soldiers of the adversary army were destroyed, precisely those grouped for the trap, that had been waiting to receive the Nagorno Karabakh commandoes.

The Armenian helicopter was downed by Azerbaijani forces on November 12. Few days later the Nagorno Karabakh Republic's armed forces, after unsuccessful attempts of returning the bodies of pilots through mediation of international organizations, particularly the Red Cross and OSCE, began a special operation to find out the destiny of the copter crewmembers and accomplish tasks dictated according to those findings. As a result of special operation, the body of one pilot and remains of the other two crewmembers, as well as some important parts of the helicopter were recovered.

Apparently they only sent 4 guys: http://www.panorama.am/en/politics/2...-shahnazaryan/

Which isn't all that crazy. 4 guys, to bound 260 meters, carry a body and some intel back. In-n-out

Although, the 5-7 figure. Not sure about that. Gonna need to see bodies, or maybe we might hear about more Azerbaijani soldiers dying in toilet collapses.


Who do you guys think did it? Group of guys from one of the three recon battalions, the Spetsnaz regiment, or possibly Karabakh security forces?

[Ak105]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I'm really surprised on how good of a job they did. Looks like breaking boards with painted faces does help.

[Chubs]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I'm really surprised on how good of a job they did. Looks like breaking boards with painted faces does help.

LOL I guess it does.

I seriously think they should drop that ridiculous Soviet-ceremony. Poland has got the right idea, with their GROM units.

Armenia needs to develop their own, strictly professional, ceremonies.

I understand its there, to keep up reputation, but MoD needs to realize, it does little for it. What does increase the reputation of a unit, or a country, is operational performance. The most recent operation, is a perfect example.