Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The Israeli Connection

Israeli made AEROSTAR unmanned aerial vehicle on parade in Baku

The smaller Israeli UAV (ORBITER) mounted on UAZ vans during the same parade

Made in Israel 300mm rocket launcher mounted on a Russian KAMAZ truck

Another Israeli made rocket launcher (160mm) in Baku


The third member of the family of Israeli made rocket launchers. This is the 122mm


Israeli made TAVOR assult rifles in the hands of Azeri special forces

During the past couple of years, Georgia and Azerbaijan have been buying significant amount of weapons from Israel.
Is it pure business for the Israelis or....

[meline]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The Israeli Connection

Israeli made AEROSTAR unmanned aerial vehicle on parade in Baku

The smaller Israeli UAV (ORBITER) mounted on UAZ vans during the same parade

Made in Israel 300mm rocket launcher mounted on a Russian KAMAZ truck

Another Israeli made rocket launcher (160mm) in Baku


The third member of the family of Israeli made rocket launchers. This is the 122mm


Israeli made TAVOR assult rifles in the hands of Azeri special forces

During the past couple of years, Georgia and Azerbaijan have been buying significant amount of weapons from Israel.
Is it pure business for the Israelis or....

Zoravar, how would you assess the performance of the TAVOR?
And one more question, the unmanned AEROSTAR aircraft seems to be highly appreciated, but do you think that its full potential could be used in a landscape such as that in Artsakh?
Thank you in advance

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Meline,

The TAVOR is not something unique or revolutionary. It is a "bullpup" configured assault rifle. That means the trigger is moved forward of the magazine. That kind of arrangement shortens the overall length of the weapon by around 15-20 cm. That compactness is the advantage over other weapons. It is not more powerfull or more accurate than a similar firearm of conventional design (such as the Kalashnikov or M-16) using the same ammunition. On the other hand, the "bullpup" configuration brings disadvantages as well (such as less comfort, incompatibility with lefthanded shooters etc.). It is an expensive gun, probably costs over $2000 (compare that with an Kalashnikov at around $500).

Changing a conventional firearm to "bullpup" is not that difficult. I know people who have re-arranged their guns by themselves at home. Armenia also produces its own "bullpup" configured assault rifle. It is based on the AK-74 (Kalashnikov series) and is called the K-3. It is more compact than the AK while being shorter. Being costly, it is issued only to the special forces.

Here is a photo of our K-3


More details about the TAVOR: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as30-e.htm

As for the AEROSTAR and UAVs in general:

The ones Baku posesses are not armed. They are used for reconnaissance and target location. Think of them as an oversized remote controlled plane that you can buy at some specialized shops. They have a video-camera with a direct link to an operator who can see the enemy's positions and call in artillery or airstrikes to eliminate them. In the past, these aerial reconnaissance duties were done by manned aircraft. So, the use of a UAV is not only cheaper, but also does not expose human pilots to enemy anti-air fire. A good idea that has received a lot of attention in general because it is "cool" or "hi-tech".

It has been very successfull against oponents who don't have much of an air defense (such as the Israelis against Hezbollah in 2006 and the Americans against the Taliban in 2001). However, when the opnent has a sophisticated and capable air defense network consisting of surface to air missiles and fighter interceptors, the life-span of a slow flying UAV will be very short. The Georgians lost almost all of their Israeli made HERMES UAVs (which are bigger and more capable than the AEROSTAR and ORBITER of the Azeris) before and during the August conflict.

The Azeris have a limited number of UAVs and our anti-air defenses are capable of minimizing the amount of recon missions they can do over our lands.

For your entertainment, here is a video of an Iraqi Mig-25 shooting an American PREDATOR UAV (a model armed with air-air missiles) in 2002: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWUR3sgKUV8

And here is a video of an Israeli made Georgian HERMES UAV being shot down by a Russian or Abkhazian Mig-29 before the summer conflict: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_lmAZInZ4

As you can see, UAVs are good to film their own death as well

To fully appreciate the value of a UAV. I suggest you also watch this short clip (a commercial for a Russian made UAV) in which it is photographing the take-off of a Tu-22M3 BACFIRE bomber: http://www.pwgs.org/video/irkut-850.wmv

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Azerbaijan to cut military spending
20 October 2008 [16:19] - Today.Az
Azerbaijan has cut defense and security spending outlook by 10.3% in the 2009 state budget blueprint, compared to the approved forecast for 2008.

Zahid Oruj, member of a parliamentary commission for defense and security, told APA-ECONOMICS that AZN 1 205.520 million is earmarked for next year.

"Of this, AZN 1 115.948 million will go to defense forces, AZN 84.561 million to national security, AZN 2.633 million to applied research and AZN 2.379 million to other expenses. The reason for a year-over-year decline in defense spending is that fixed capital investment was made in previous years. However, the defense sector will be in the focus of attention and social security of service men will be further improved," he added.

In the category of Defense Expenditures, the year-over-year decline was 19% for defense forces, 12% for national security, 31% for other subcategories and 2% for applied research.

The draft budget has been submitted to the parliament for approval last week.

/APA/

Baboon source http://www.today.az/news/business/48359.html

[truAnatolian]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Ok... they didn't cut anything. Don't get to excitied
They are actually increasing spending.

http://www.azg.am/EN/2008101602

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Ok... they didn't cut anything. Don't get to excitied
They are actually increasing spending.
http://www.azg.am/EN/2008101602

Your article from the Armenian AZG daily is dated 16th of October. While the Azeri article is dated 20th of October...

Nevertheless, what is planned and what is executed are 2 different things.
Also, what is actualy spent on weaponry and what is going into some officials and generals pockets are also 2 different things.

[meline]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Meline,

The TAVOR is not something unique or revolutionary. It is a "bullpup" configured assault rifle. That means the trigger is moved forward of the magazine. That kind of arrangement shortens the overall length of the weapon by around 15-20 cm. That compactness is the advantage over other weapons. It is not more powerfull or more accurate than a similar firearm of conventional design (such as the Kalashnikov or M-16) using the same ammunition. On the other hand, the "bullpup" configuration brings disadvantages as well (such as less comfort, incompatibility with lefthanded shooters etc.). It is an expensive gun, probably costs over $2000 (compare that with an Kalashnikov at around $500).

Changing a conventional firearm to "bullpup" is not that difficult. I know people who have re-arranged their guns by themselves at home. Armenia also produces its own "bullpup" configured assault rifle. It is based on the AK-74 (Kalashnikov series) and is called the K-3. It is more compact than the AK while being shorter. Being costly, it is issued only to the special forces.

Here is a photo of our K-3


More details about the TAVOR: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as30-e.htm

As for the AEROSTAR and UAVs in general:

The ones Baku posesses are not armed. They are used for reconnaissance and target location. Think of them as an oversized remote controlled plane that you can buy at some specialized shops. They have a video-camera with a direct link to an operator who can see the enemy's positions and call in artillery or airstrikes to eliminate them. In the past, these aerial reconnaissance duties were done by manned aircraft. So, the use of a UAV is not only cheaper, but also does not expose human pilots to enemy anti-air fire. A good idea that has received a lot of attention in general because it is "cool" or "hi-tech".

It has been very successfull against oponents who don't have much of an air defense (such as the Israelis against Hezbollah in 2006 and the Americans against the Taliban in 2001). However, when the opnent has a sophisticated and capable air defense network consisting of surface to air missiles and fighter interceptors, the life-span of a slow flying UAV will be very short. The Georgians lost almost all of their Israeli made HERMES UAVs (which are bigger and more capable than the AEROSTAR and ORBITER of the Azeris) before and during the August conflict.

The Azeris have a limited number of UAVs and our anti-air defenses are capable of minimizing the amount of recon missions they can do over our lands.

For your entertainment, here is a video of an Iraqi Mig-25 shooting an American PREDATOR UAV (a model armed with air-air missiles) in 2002: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWUR3sgKUV8

And here is a video of an Israeli made Georgian HERMES UAV being shot down by a Russian or Abkhazian Mig-29 before the summer conflict: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk_lmAZInZ4

As you can see, UAVs are good to film their own death as well

To fully appreciate the value of a UAV. I suggest you also watch this short clip (a commercial for a Russian made UAV) in which it is photographing the take-off of a Tu-22M3 BACFIRE bomber: http://www.pwgs.org/video/irkut-850.wmv

Thanks Zoravar, it's really worth watching!
Yes, it was the compactness vs power of the Tavor that I was intersted in

[gmd]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Does anyone know if the demographic situation in Armenia and Artsak has begun to stabilize? How are the overall demographic trends in Armenia as opposed to the Azeris and Georgia?

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Does anyone know if the demographic situation in Armenia and Artsak has begun to stabilize? How are the overall demographic trends in Armenia as opposed to the Azeris and Georgia?

Armenia is a real mystery. There are always reports stating that our population is growing and othe reports that we're still shrinking. A lot of contradictions. But one thing that we can confirm is that it's way more stable than what was happening in the 90s.

Artsakh is enjoying a population boom that is being encouraged by the government and the Armenian diaspora. Just recently they held 700 weddings in 1 day with a reward of 2000$ (not drams) for 1 baby, 4000$ for 2... all the way up to 100 000$ for 7.

Azerbaijan, the population grows thanks to rabbit-like breeding but they do have some emigration problems.

Don't know much about Georgia.

[Armenian]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Does anyone know if the demographic situation in Armenia and Artsak has begun to stabilize? How are the overall demographic trends in Armenia as opposed to the Azeris and Georgia?

There seems to be a significant rise in births in Armenia and Artsakh. However, population drain, migration due to economic reasons, is still a serious problem, although no where near as bad as it was in the 1990s. This is where the statical discrepancy Federate referred to comes from. The population is slowly increasing, yet it is also decreasing. Nothing about Armenia or Armenians is ever simple to comprehend...