Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

So I was just day-dreaming today about the different possible scenarios that would settle the Artsakh issue. Different thoughts eventually led me to think "what if we had Russian "peacekeepers" in Artsakh?"

I don't know if it has been considered since the South Ossetia war but it surely worked out for them! Within the first hour of the war, Russian "peacekeepers" came under attack and boom, Russia was involved... sending in land forces and helping the Ossetians achieve simple victory with minimal losses (comparing to a longer war that might've taken place) and Russian recognition. Just a thought that I thought would be cool to discuss.

What does everyone else think? Any opinions if this might be good or bad?

[crusader1492]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

So I was just day-dreaming today about the different possible scenarios that would settle the Artsakh issue. Different thoughts eventually led me to think "what if we had Russian "peacekeepers" in Artsakh?"

I don't know if it has been considered since the South Ossetia war but it surely worked out for them! Within the first hour of the war, Russian "peacekeepers" came under attack and boom, Russia was involved... sending in land forces and helping the Ossetians achieve simple victory with minimal losses (comparing to a longer war that might've taken place) and Russian recognition. Just a thought that I thought would be cool to discuss.

What does everyone else think? Any opinions if this might be good or bad?

I don't think this would be a good idea because Russian - Azeri relations are not bad (as compared to Russian - Georgian relations leading up to he war).

In short, Russia really had no option but to take S. Ossetia's side 100% because Georgia was 100% anti-Russian. With that said, you have to factor in that Russia could strike a deal with Azerbaijan that would be against Armenian interests...especially since Azerbaijan has oil and gas.

In short, the only way it would be a good idea to have Rusiian peacekeepers in Artsakh is if Azerbaijan becomes as anti-Russian as Georgia is/was.

[truAnatolian]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Russia offered to put in Peace keepers back in the early 90's and have reiterated their offer a number of times, Armenia agreed each time but Azerbaijan refuted. Its already been though up and its a no go.

As for the demographic situation in Armenia, you can look it up on the CIA factbook.... Population growth is still negative but expected to stabilize in the next year or two. They update their information quite often, they are unbiased and you can use the same database to compare us to Georgia and Azerbaijan (Actually I did that just the other day). Azerbaijan population growth is + but nothing special.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/am.html

Oh and those K-3's are bad ass..... I had no idea! Do you have any more pictures or information on them??

[gmd]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

If Russians are playing the role of a legitimate peace keeping force what would be the objection from the Azeris? They would prefer to have no peacekeepers to keep the military option alive?

[Armenian]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

So I was just day-dreaming today about the different possible scenarios that would settle the Artsakh issue. Different thoughts eventually led me to think "what if we had Russian "peacekeepers" in Artsakh?" ... What does everyone else think? Any opinions if this might be good or bad?

Well, if Armenia was seeking to join the Russian Federation (something I personally would seriously consider) Moscow would consider stationing Russian "peacekeepers" on the territory of Artsakh, otherwise Moscow would never do it because it trying very hard to keep a strategically very significant Baku within its orbit. Another scenario that would pit Russia against Azerbaijan would be, like Crusader said, if Baku suddenly became anti-Russian. However, there is virtually no chance for that happening, especially now after what happened in Georgia.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Well, if Armenia was seeking to join the Russian Federation (something I personally would seriously consider) Moscow would consider stationing Russian "peacekeepers" on the territory of Artsakh, otherwise Moscow would never do it because it trying very hard to keep a strategically very significant Baku within its orbit. Another scenario that would pit Russia against Azerbaijan would be, like Crusader said, if Baku suddenly became anti-Russian. However, there is virtually no chance for that happening, especially now after what happened in Georgia.

This is where I depart with you, Armenian. Enlighten me with your reasoning for wanting to join the Russian Federation. Armenians must work for Azad, Angakh yev Miatsial Hayasdan, not an "Official Armenian Oblast of the Russian Federation".

[truAnatolian]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Join the RF? WTF!
This is the only time I will say a dashnak statement: Azadoutioun Gam Mah!
Once your in their grip theres not coming out.

Independent Armenia 4 Ever!

[Armenian]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This is where I depart with you, Armenian. Enlighten me with your reasoning for wanting to join the Russian Federation. Armenians must work for Azad, Angakh yev Miatsial Hayasdan, not an "Official Armenian Oblast of the Russian Federation".

Sometimes my frustrations regarding Armenia and Armenians overtake me. I am glad you disagree with me on this matter, and I greatly respect you for it. For most of my adult life I also thought and felt like you. My observations during the last several years, however, began to change my mind somewhat regarding our self rule; and Levon Petrosian's bloody fiasco early this year basically confirmed what I had already strongly suspected, namely that we Armenians (in our current state) are not able to effectively/efficiently govern ourselves in a very complex and volatile geopolitical region like the Caucasus. In short, I'm tired of Armenia's poverty, I'm tired of Armenia's lack of longterm security, I am tired of Armenia's petty yet serious internal disputes, I am tired of facing multitudes of hungry wolves in our nasty neighborhood all by ourselves... We might find our security, peace, stability and prosperity in some form of a union with the Russian Federation, perhaps in a confederation with them. I'm still a staunch nationalist, but I guess with a twist... Believe me, I am depressed that I feel this way. In my opinion, the next ten-twenty years will be crucial/pivotal for Armenia. If we can't have a serious breakthrough, if we continue remaining in our obscure and endangered position, I would theoretically support some form of a union with the Russian Federation. I rather be a part of the Russian Federation than continue being a tiny, landlocked, endangered, impoverished, third world state constantly seeking handouts and help... I hope I am wrong but ազատ անկախ և միացյալ Հայաստան sounds good and exciting but it may not become a realty for us in the foreseeable future. I guess my personal take on this matter comes from many years of dealing with self-hating and/or ignorant Armenians, taking into serious concideration the xxxxed-up geopolitical situation of world in general and the Caucasus region in particular, taking into concideration our wonderful neighbors, the severe lack of national assets, etc... But I have not given up yet. Like I said, the next ten-twenty years will be revealing.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Interesting responses.

I don't think that Georgia was anti-Russian when the peacekeepers were initially deployed in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Russian peacekeepers in Artsakh is strategic for Russia. First, it clears up its name in the Caucasus to the rest of the world. Second, it will deter any baboon attempt at attack. Third, if (when?) the baboons attack, the peacekeepers will be forced to react (keep the peace ) to which they will get shot at. This will be the perfect pretext for Russia's control of not only the BTC pipeline but the less-known Baku-Supsa pipeline as well. In case you did not know, those two pipelines are within firing range of Artsakh and since the alleged summer operation which Armenian detailed about, we are now even closer. The drunk Boris Yeltsin's gift to Armenia (a dozen SCUDS) are aimed at it too

Russia doesn't really need to explain itself to anyone, let alone Azerbaboonjan. But anyway, it's not really taking sides is it? They ARE peacekeepers making sure no hostilities return as long as those (useless) peace talks continue . We don't need the baboons' consent whether to deploy Russian "peacekeepers" or not. This is defeatist mentality that we keep going back to. We freakin' won the war yet we're gonna take a 'no' from the fake republic and just agree?

[yerazhishda]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Sometimes my frustrations regarding Armenia and Armenians overtake me. I am glad you disagree with me on this matter, and I greatly respect you for it. For most of my adult life I also thought and felt like you. My observations during the last several years, however, began to change my mind somewhat regarding our self rule; and Levon Petrosian's bloody fiasco early this year basically confirmed what I had already strongly suspected, namely that we Armenians (in our current state) are not able to effectively/efficiently govern ourselves in a very complex and volatile geopolitical region like the Caucasus. In short, I'm tired of Armenia's poverty, I'm tired of Armenia's lack of longterm security, I am tired of Armenia's petty yet serious internal disputes, I am tired of facing multitudes of hungry wolves in our nasty neighborhood all by ourselves... We might find our security, peace, stability and prosperity in some form of a union with the Russian Federation, perhaps in a confederation with them. I'm still a staunch nationalist, but I guess with a twist... Believe me, I am depressed that I feel this way. In my opinion, the next ten-twenty years will be crucial/pivotal for Armenia. If we can't have a serious breakthrough, if we continue remaining in our obscure and endangered position, I would theoretically support some form of a union with the Russian Federation. I rather be a part of the Russian Federation than continue being a tiny, landlocked, endangered, impoverished, third world state constantly seeking handouts and help... I hope I am wrong but ազատ անկախ և միացյալ Հայաստան sounds good and exciting but it may not become a realty for us in the foreseeable future. I guess my personal take on this matter comes from many years of dealing with self-hating and/or ignorant Armenians, taking into serious concideration the xxxxed-up geopolitical situation of world in general and the Caucasus region in particular, taking into concideration our wonderful neighbors, the severe lack of national assets, etc... But I have not given up yet. Like I said, the next ten-twenty years will be revealing.

This is a very interesting view and is very reasoned. However, I think we should only go to that extreme if we are between a rock and a hard place i.e. in a similar position as we were post-Genocide. I agree that I want to be free, but I also don't want to see my people die from starvation like a 3rd world country either. I think Armenia is far off from a 'point of no-return' but that something definitely needs to change so that we can improve.