Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Those are wars of occupations, and wars of attempted regime change. Wars of asymmetrical warfare. Where you have a group hiding in the population and fighting you indirectly, in guerrilla hit and run tactics. Where you have to take special care to avoid civilians when you attack armed groups that blend in the population. That's a totally different scenario than what will take place in a potential next war in Artsakh. It will be a conventional war when two conventional armies go head to head in clearly drawn out front lines, and air superiority is a lot more valuable in such a scenario.

As a side note to this, I have absolutely no doubt that Azerbaijan will attempt to bombard populated areas like Stepanakert and other towns and claim we are firing from there ("human shields") to justify it. The real goal will be to kill as many Armenians and make the rest of the population flee. Need to be prepared to counter such a scenario, both militarily and on the countering of propaganda level.

[gokorik]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Those are wars of occupations, and wars of attempted regime change. Wars of asymmetrical warfare. Where you have a group hiding in the population and fighting you indirectly, in guerrilla hit and run tactics. Where you have to take special care to avoid civilians when you attack armed groups that blend in the population. That's a totally different scenario than what will take place in a potential next war in Artsakh. It will be a conventional war when two conventional armies go head to head in clearly drawn out front lines, and air superiority is a lot more valuable in such a scenario.

Read Eddo's statement again. He's stating any and every war, air superiority dictates who win who loses. For example The Vietnam War when the US was attacking North Vietnam with massive bombing runs, that wasn't an insurgency, it was a conventional fight. The North Vietnamese did suffered heavy losses but didn't capitulate.
In Afghanistan the insurgest weren't hiding in the cities and towns once MANPAD's were acquired. They went on the offensive and were able to go toe to toe with the Soviet Army as long as they had ATGM and MANPAD's. And again air superiorty didn't dictate the outcome.
I understate your point but I don't think it proves Eddo's statement right that your guaranteed victory if you own the air in every single case.

[Chubs]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

By the time Armenia counter attacks their fast movers will be gone..

The only thing that they might retain are attack helicopters which can be easily shot down with 30mm guns or MANPADs...

Spending more money on an airforce atm is a bit futile..In the future, yes it is required but not now.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

It apears some of you just don't want accept that air superiority wins war. comparing it to Iraq Vietnam even proves my point that the skys belong to Americans and they could target anything they want at anytime. The wars may have been lost but without air power much more casualty would have happened.

Listen guys, this is just a scenario, no fact and I an't no General....just a pilot

Azerbaijan attacks Artsakh, full war starts again, we defend Artsakh and the enemy retreats. We decide to counter attack so we give chase, we bring out our tanks and all the AA you can drive in the open plains. As it stands Azerbaijan will start to fight much harder, they own the skies even though some are getting shutdown. Armenia will advance but at a great cost of life and equipment while Azerbaijan continues to get man and equipment and tanks. They know exact position of our forces from the Turkish satellite. Armenia will get bugged down and many have to retreat.

Now if we (Artsakh) had just two squadrant of SU-25 and our existing attack helis things will be different. If we achieve air superiority and we want to finish the war fast and stop Azeri ability to ever be a threat again to Artsakh and Armenia. You AA and manpads are not good enough to do this. The airforce not only will save many Armenian lives but also, as we are on the move East, destroy enemy bridges, command centers, Radar sites, etc..
This will now bug them down with no reinforcements and surrounded. with few days we should be able to control much part of our stolen lands, dig in close to Baku and attack baku when we are ready.

The SU-25 can also take out their off shore oil rigs.

Fast war....finished in less then two months.

[Chubs]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

It apears some of you just don't want accept that air superiority wins war. comparing it to Iraq Vietnam even proves my point that the skys belong to Americans and they could target anything they want at anytime. The wars may have been lost but without air power much more casualty would have happened.

Listen guys, this is just a scenario, no fact and I an't no General....just a pilot

Azerbaijan attacks Artsakh, full war starts again, we defend Artsakh and the enemy retreats. We decide to counter attack so we give chase, we bring out our tanks and all the AA you can drive in the open plains. As it stands Azerbaijan will start to fight much harder, they own the skies even though some are getting shutdown. Armenia will advance but at a great cost of life and equipment while Azerbaijan continues to get man and equipment and tanks. They know exact position of our forces from the Turkish satellite. Armenia will get bugged down and many have to retreat.

Now if we (Artsakh) had just two squadrant of SU-25 and our existing attack helis things will be different. If we achieve air superiority and we want to finish the war fast and stop Azeri ability to ever be a threat again to Artsakh and Armenia. You AA and manpads are not good enough to do this. The airforce not only will save many Armenian lives but also, as we are on the move East, destroy enemy bridges, command centers, Radar sites, etc..
This will now bug them down with no reinforcements and surrounded. with few days we should be able to control much part of our stolen lands, dig in close to Baku and attack baku when we are ready.

The SU-25 can also take out their off shore oil rigs.

Fast war....finished in less then two months.

If you want air superiority, buy air superiority fighters like the SU-27..Idk why you are going nuts over getting more SU-25s

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Because we need aircraft that will support the troops in close combat not from 10000ft. Ours can be armed with air to air missiles (like in Armenia) and engage their sU-25s. at this point they may bring out their Mig-29s to take out our SU-25s (for a good pilot that is easy picking)........this is where you come in, we will bring their Migs close to your AA manpad or anything you have in range and shoot them down (hopefully the ground guys do not target us by mistake).

[Chubs]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Because we need aircraft that will support the troops in close combat not from 10000ft. Ours can be armed with air to air missiles (like in Armenia) and engage their sU-25s. at this point they may bring out their Mig-29s to take out our SU-25s (for a good pilot that is easy picking)........this is where you come in, we will bring their Migs close to your AA manpad or anything you have in range and shoot them down (hopefully the ground guys do not target us by mistake).

Eddo..if you actually review everything that has been said by me and others..you can see why its not that simple..

Azerbaijan wont have an airforce left during an Armenian counter offensive.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Long Live Armenia.
Asad Artsakh.
Two states....one nation.



Turks

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenian Army

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenian Air Defence