Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Very funny:

There was a soccer match between the German team Borussia Dortmund and Karabakh FC from Azerbaijan. During the match, German fans waved the Armenian flag. Borussia Dortmund defeated them 4 to nil.

http://www.totalfootball.am/2010/08/22375/

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Very funny:

There was a soccer match between the German team Borussia Dortmund and Karabakh FC from Azerbaijan. During the match, German fans waved the Armenian flag. Borussia Dortmund defeated them 4 to nil.


http://www.totalfootball.am/2010/08/22375/

ya i heard about that. azeris are claiming thats why they lost, the players got distracted by the flag and gave up 4 first half goals.

always blame Armenia for everything.

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

http://www.lragir.am/engsrc/politics-lrahos18800.html

LAVROV’S MESSAGES

It is not obligatory to explode pipes with the help of rockets

In an interview with the RF Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, three important messages were delivered. Besides the absolutely clear evidence that Russia sold to Azerbaijan S-300missile systems, Lavrov said that in the South Caucasus region there is no intention that anyone will start war. Then, from whom Russia is trying to protect Azerbaijan, if nobody is going to attack? From where is Azerbaijan expecting such a threat that it pays huge money for a defensive weapon?

Neighbors of Azerbaijan are Russia, Georgia, Turkey, Armenia and Iran. We can immediately rule out Russia, Georgia and Turkey from the list of potential “aggressors” against Azerbaijan. Armenia and Iran are left. Armenia has never announced about any aggressive intention against Azerbaijan. Two versions are left: either Azerbaijan bought S 300 to defend its airspace from Iranian rockets, or Azerbaijan plans a military revenge against Armenia and wants to secure the defense of its objects.

It is no secret that in response to the militaristic ambitions of Azerbaijan, the Armenian side has repeatedly stated that, unlike Armenia, Azerbaijan has mass objects of a strategic nature - military, industrial and human, and these objects will become primary targets in case of the resumption of hostilities. There were hints of possible attacks on oil and gas facilities, pipelines, on Mingechaur dam. Apparently, this is what has led Azerbaijan to buy S-300.

Quite a sober response. Only Azerbaijan forgets that these sites were vulnerable when Armenia did not have high-range missiles. And these facilities are available not only for the missiles. There are many other means. Moreover, both the Armenian and the Iranian side and all other “interested” parties may resort to these means.

Another important statement by Lavrov is a message of intent to create CSTO peacekeeping troops. Commenting on the upcoming August 20-22 informal CSTO summit to be held in Yerevan, Lavrov noted that this time the leaders, in an informal setting, will discuss the establishment of a peacekeeping contingent. He noted that the CSTO has no mechanisms for peacekeeping missions and the mandate of the newly created rapid reaction force does not permit their use in many cases.

This is a very interesting statement. Apparently, the troops will be created, possibly by the time Karabakh denouement approaches. And between Armenians and Azeris there can appear not only the UN or the OSCE but also CSTO peacekeepers, in other words, Russians. Armenians and Azerbaijanis should think who needs Russians in Karabakh. Only Russians.
NAIRA HAYRUMYAN

-----------------------------------------

The plot thickens

.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The historic visit of the Russian president happened. It is historic and noteworthy from the point that next morning, we woke up in Russia. The visit and the signed documents put everything into their places, and why not “they brought peaceful stillness to our dreamy souls”.

Since thanks to this visit, in particular and especially:
- We have been freed from the concern to look for friends and enemies since once again we appeared and fit into the predetermined from above stencil. That is: Turkey is our enemy, Azerbaijan also, Georgia is malicious, Iran – or-or. The only hope and support in the world is Russia.

- We have been freed from the concern to work out and lead foreign policy since we have nothing to talk about with anyone in general and with neighbors in particular, and second, no one needs to talk to us because any issue connected with us becomes an issue of Russia.

- We have been freed from the concern of defending our own country, being absolutely sterile in diplomacy, being unable to create diplomatic and political security guarantees we brought the issue to the creation of exceptionally military guarantees and gave the whole system of the army and security to foreigners.

- We have been freedom from the concern to care for our own land, because land does not belong to who is walking on it, but to who defends it.

- We have been freed from the concern to form a national power, because the Armenian government stops being such one and becomes like a temporary administrator of a broken institution. Necessary to note that feeling that insuperable crisis overwhelmed the country and fundamental changes are needed, the ruling group, in order to keep the power, took up a genius step. It did not render the shift of government impossible, but even more. With this step, it rendered the change of power senseless. Is it essential who is going to be the temporary administrator after the institution breaks down?

In other words, in this phase of our history, we finally got rid of the concern to deal with politics in its real sense.

Once again we reached the famous truth – an Armenian can resist every trial, but never its own independence.

VLADIMIR HARUTYUNYAN

From the same site, I wonder who is the one paying their payrolls.

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

It would be very useful if a knowledgeable member on this board would put all papers' affiliations so we can put news from these sources in to context.

Pro-government
Opposition
Independent etc

List of papers can be found here http://www.circle.am/

Not sure if this would be subject to a new thread.

[Haykakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

From the same site, I wonder who is the one paying their payrolls.

The big problem with this article is the same problem many armenians who are anti-russian fail to understand. The assumption that we would do better on our own without Russia is flawed and is based on utter nothingness. What is it exactly that Armenia would have to bargain with if it did not have Russia? A point we must not forget is that Armenia is unable to maintain its security by itself. There is no way todays or even tomorows Armenia is going to stand up to Turkey let alone to Turkey and the Azeris and the kniving Georgians. Without the russians Armenia is left with only one other option and that is Iran and Iran is nowhere near as good a partner for Armenia as Russia is.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

20 -30 thousand people would suggest no economic activity and the place is deserted.

I think a good way to guess the population there is to use Google Earth and observe for car traffic in the capital Nakhichevan.

I am sure an expert would read far more telltale signs of activity.

There are probably about 150,000 people. Almost nobody needs cars - there is nowhere to go, and Nakhchivan city (where about half the population lives)is so small you can easily walk everywhere or spend 50c on a taxi. Substantial economic activity is limited to the opening of Baku-subsidised pay packets every week - there are hundreds of women who are paid to sweep the streets each evening (it must bethe worlds cleanest city - not a single fallen leaf is left unswept), and thousands of state employees and police who sit around doing nothing all day.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

"Melkonian, Sargsyan, Ohanian, all of those bastards killed over 600 innocent women and children"

Obsession with the Azerbaijani specificity
The small and miserable, like a stone thrown into Ararat ...
Yeghisheh Charents

How many people want to remain silent, do not get much want to read but not respond, see, but did not notice ... I can not.
The fact that the Azeri known provocateurs, the news is not, but to such an extent? In fact, it's not in the professionalism and skill, just Azerbaijani electronic media sometimes pretend to publish sensational "materials" so frankly delusional, it is impossible to remain silent.
About 17 years ago, during the destruction of strong points called "Wolf's Lair" Agdam, fourth in terms of population of the city of the Azerbaijan Republic, killed the commander of the defense of the Martuni region, NKR, was posthumously awarded the title of National Hero of Armenia Monte Melkonian Charlzovich whom the people of Artsakh called Avo.
All the circumstances of his death are well known and studied: Avo was the commander-leader of the troops, and all his actions were in sight. On June 12, 1993. defense forces of NKR, stationed at the approaches to Marzilli, taken in three directions to form large-scale counteroffensive security zone around Nagorno-Karabakh. Village Marzilli was in a strategic sense, the threshold Agdam. The military operation has developed successfully, "glorious" Azerbaijani Asker ran headlong, but Karabakh unit were forced to stay for some time: first it was a minefield. On mine rode well and tank, which was now Major-General Vitaly Balasanian stock. At this time, Avo ordered to organize a halt - until engineers will clear mines from a safe passage of sufficient width. Step by step approaching Agdam army has been able to rest and eat. Avo himself tired her head propped against the wall of a house. At that time it has lost the way Azeri armored vehicles, from the splinters of fire line and was killed by Monte (AEC) Melkonian, sharing the fate of many, many commanders, going ahead of the army.
All this happened in June of 1993. However, in our lives, especially in the anti-Armenian hysteria official Baku, sometimes there are unexpected twists. Avo died 17 years ago, and now in the Azeri press suddenly published a half-mad, who begins to tell about the actions "of the Azerbaijani Avenger" and his version of the death of Avo. And even trying to do it seriously.
Any self-respecting media would refrain from publishing such nonsense, from the creation of an "image" of a commander of sabotage and reconnaissance unit "Ibad Huseynov and stryapaniya interview in which he clearly felt unrestrained desire with one hand to hold lots of watermelons.
Several of these watermelons editors 1nyus.az. exhibited in the first paragraph of his "material" from which it appears that:
a) Monte (AEC) Melkonian did not die in the destruction of GCP Aghdam, and as a result of organized Azerbaijan mythical raid (not it would be better instead to organize the operation of protection Agdam?);
b) "Armenian terrorists" are able to find any, even the individual members of Azerbaijan, so intelligence agencies of this state, for safety reasons, not disclosed "feat Ibad";
c) even the Israeli intelligence services could not do what he did 22-year-old Azerbaijani Reconnaissance Ibad Huseynov.
Then it turns out that he was in the early 1990's, 20 years old, prematurely discharged from the Soviet army as a result of hunger, "bare hands" (as the "Soviet military sold weapons to the Armenians") organizes a group of subversive exploration in Martuni region , and starts fighting taken from the Armenian soldiers in arms.
It creates the impression that 1nyus.az. sufficiently familiar with the history of the Artsakh war, but ... with the history of the Armenian side, and your favorite parts of an old habit, thieves, have decided to assign.
Theft of Fame needs to be rigged, so "it appears" that Ibad with a small detachment seized ... 70% of the regional center of Martuni (!), The city, which for the whole war did not set foot Azerbaijan Asker, "but led by Ayaz Mutalibov Azeri authorities sent subsidiary forces. As a result of "betrayal Mutalibov Armenians managed to seize Karadaglu and Khodjalu. And then Ibad, suffered a heavy defeat of Azerbaijanis proclaimed himself a shahid. After that he will in all probability, by supernatural forces, regular and easily penetrate to the rear of the defensive units of Martuni, obtain the necessary information and even ... in the course of "destroying" several hundred Armenian fighters. All these feats Ibad is not the protection of "native land", and the murder of Avo, and the "hero" trying to restore all the information about the movements of Monte Melkonian, sternly warned his men not to kill Avo, and allow this he did himself.
The whole point of this paragraph is that all major points of reference in the Azerbaijani Nagorno Karabakh were destroyed, not volunteers Karabakh and Armenia, and Armenians from abroad. A few lines it appears that the creation of the entire security zone was actually charged with Monte Melkonian. But any ordinary Azeris knows by heart that there are no Armenians from abroad, and Armenians from abroad, terrorists. And incidentally also points out that rent the calm Azerbaijan internal political conflict and establish a political agreement in the summer of ninety-third could only Heydar Aliyev.
Ordinary cheap propaganda articles, reminding excerpts from the ancient epic "Dede Korkut". "He Avo, and I Ibad. This is my fight, "exclaimed newly appeared Azerbaijani epic" Hero "and came out to meet Monte. And, of course, wins. Like all of Azerbaijan's "heroes". Azerbaijan "heroes" always won. All. Here are just stupidly confused Mughanli with Marzilli on podstkpah to ktoroy Monte Melkonian was killed, and confused, run. Previously, once again defeated.
"Faced with Avo, Ibad saw in the eyes of Avo pain and regret that he had" met death in a strange land, where he shed with impunity, the blood of innocent people "... Idiocy staff 1nyus.az. limit has not, otherwise they would not attempt to convince the reader that during the fall of strong points Agdam, when this vast territory the Azerbaijanis was complete chaos, Ibad two days ... was positioned in neskolkoh meters from the Martuni district center.
At the end of "material" it appears that Ibad was seriously wounded in December 93rd, splinters entered his head and he was 28 days in a coma. After arriving from Moscow, some well-known surgeon asked relatives Ibad "for research purposes" to open his head and brain, and when removed the effects of hemorrhage, Ibad miraculously survived and on crutches, hobbled into the native military unit ...
Apparently after Ibad out of his coma, brain, and brain of the author of "material" Rizvan Huseynov and managers 1nyus.az. remained in a coma, nothing else to explain the publication of its absurdity, I can not.
Nevertheless, we believe that the example can be contagious, and in the near future, as the post-revolutionary Russia invaded "the children of Lieutenant Schmidt, and on the Azerbaijani sites will host Ibad different caliber, telling different illogical and unbelievable stories about the last war.

Ashot BADALYAN

Editor:

Ashot Badalyan, a participant of the Artsakh war, a former fighter units Martuni defense area, he brought to us in Voskanapat this article. Frankly, we had no intention to respond to dirty and false publication circulated in the Azerbaijani press. However, the moral indignation of the old warrior distributed in Azerbaijan lies around the name of his commander, the National Hero of Armenia Monte Melkonian, led us to reconsider. However, we found it necessary to publish it and we know information about the birth of "hero Ibad".
Just say, Ibad Huseynov - really exists. And it is - one of the two truths in all the stories about his "exploits" in the war.
The first article on Ibad and his "heroic deeds" appeared in the early morning of April 29, 2008 on the site Dey.az. A few hours later the article was removed from the site, but it is stored in our archives. Along with the photo, which depicted Ibad and another Asker, and next to them on the stump, severed head of man, not even remotely resembling Monte. Thus, the second truth is that Ibad with other criminals actually cut off a man's head (most likely taken hostage), and then posed beside the severed head. That is committed heinous criminal offense.
The article was signed by some Saleh Samandarovym, unknown to us the name. Interestingly, in this paper Ibad, S. Samandarovu telling about his "feat", said he did not know who they killed, and then calls Monte "strong man", the "bearded". Ibad only then "lit up" that it was Monte Melkonian. And illuminated Ibad none other than himself S. Samandarov. Now Ibad already represents a person, purposefully seeking a meeting with Avo. Evidently, the new prompter Ibad, Rizwan Guseinov, has more imaginative than Samandarov.
However, it is impossible not to draw attention: and Samandarov and Guseinov do not see anything wrong with that man cuts off man's head and arm, then kept for years this head at his home (Samandarov) and is awarded for this "exploit" the state award of Azerbaijan (R. Guseinov). In Azerbaijan, all of this blasphemy called "the offering of ritual sacrifice" (Samandarov).
By Samandarovu Ibad with his brother Fikret accidentally collided with the "bearded" and Ibad had first shot at him. Twice. But the "strong man" rushed at him. Then it happened: "Ibad had to shout Fikret several times before he pulled out his knife and slightly notched throat bearded, squinting from the unpleasant mission. Realizing that any further delay strongman quite able to escape, to get up and turn of events in a very undesirable for the brothers' direction, Ibad spineless Fikret pushed, pulled out his knife, and a few seconds separated the head of the hated Armenians from the body. "
We hope the reader will forgive, if we refrain from further quoting hate lies and Samandarova Ibad. We recall only that the "modern" Ibad performs ritual "ritual sacrifice" their own, without spineless Fikret.
We have no doubt that the Azerbaijani Asker actually cut off his head a certain Armenian martyr. Moreover, we know a lot of similar crimes committed by the enemy. The division of people, rape, burning alive, ripped open the stomachs of pregnant women - all of these heinous crimes, which can not fit in the thinking of normal people, are inherent in the Azerbaijani Askern. However, the use of such atrocities as propaganda material has not yet happened. And to his credit: the propaganda "Chronicle of Azerbaijan twenty-first century, this invention belongs Saleh Samandarovu. And Rizwan Guseinov, now push through the publication under the pseudonym Samandarova Khatai Ismailov - his zealous disciple.
Now is the time to understand and S. Samandarovym. It turns out that this - Vugar Seyidov, which Voskanapat.info as something called "the inexhaustible, like the Baku Sewage Boyuk Lake Shore", and as Boyuk Shore, poisoning the atmosphere. Waste lake poisons Baku, Seyidov, cursing Azerbaijan - expanses of the Internet.
As you know, before there is an inexhaustible fount Voskanapat.info secrets Azerbaijani propaganda. We have a well and correspondence Vugar with the "hero" Ibadov, which implies that this is Vugar offered him a "mutually beneficial cooperation": Vugar, of course, for a fee, glorify Ibad, and he uses his new status as a springboard for a career and financial preferences from the state. At the same time and the "patriotic duty" fulfilled - scare the Armenians. Writes Vugar Ibad «Bele meqalelerin sayi cox olmalidir. Qoy bilsinler ki, muharibede onlari ne gozleyir (such articles should be a lot. Let them know (armyane. - Ed), what awaits them in the war).
More significantly, cutting off human heads is not a crime in Azerbaijan. Unless, of course, cut off the head of an Armenian. Is it because the blog Ibad Huseynov voiced people do not even try to hide his name, and each of them tries to be as colorful talk about his personal involvement in the brutal murder of "the bearded strongman. And if two years ago, "above" and ordered to remove fake "material" from the site Dey.az., today in Baku, even at the very top, have decided not to conceal their murderous instincts. The fact that the order to remove the article went "above", Vugar bitterly wrote Ibad (see annex).
It is interesting, incidentally, that the idea "to present the public" severed head of the unfortunate man's head came to Monte Woogaroo after his countryman, an elite military officer Ramil Safarov hacked to death with an ax in Budapest sleeping Armenian officer Gurgen Markarian. Vugar and Ibad wrote: «Ramilden sonra bizden it kimi qorxurlar, hec sesleri cixmir» (After they Ramil (Armyane. - Ed.) Afraid of us like dogs, and their voices were inaudible). In fact, not hiding, that cowardly murder Gurgen Markarian was "intimidating action", that is a terrorist act. That's just all there Vugar, Ibad and their masterminds of one unable to understand: any killing of Armenians only strengthens the morale of the Armenian people.
The fact that the Caucasian Turks are unsurpassed master of the murder of civilians, sleeping, the weak and helpless children and old people, us, and without papers Samandarova known. However, in Azerbaijan does not take into account the situation following the Artsakh war, a new fact: in the rear of the Caucasian Turks peaceful Armenian population was no more. This means that no one cut them more, and in front of them is the Armenian Army. So the Caucasian Turks do not have to kill innocent people and give them out for Armenian officers.

[gegev]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

If Armenians will advocate for Armenia, as much as for Russia, not less; Armenia may turn into a truly powerful/sovereign country!

According to some advocates; Russians are doing everything for Armenia and Armenians are unable to do anything for themselves. I agree that Russia is doing something for Armenia that serves its interests in Caucasus nothing more than that. But I strongly disagree with Armenia’s disability propaganda here.

We could negotiate for getting compensation for the Russian base, as it is done by other ally countries, as well as having reservations in the base contract about terminating it if some of the Armenian requirements are not fulfilled. But alas we didn’t put down any explicit terms on Armenian requirements, we are too much afraid of Russians/ally.

Who won the famous Arthakh war?

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Who won the famous Arthakh war?

Well if you think of it like that then you could also ask who lost the Artsakh war? azeris hardly fought, they had alot of mercenaries, Afghan, Chechen, CIS, mercenaries from post soviet countries, and yes Russian forces also. They forced Talysh, Lezgin, Avar to fight because they were afraid to.

Yes Russia helped but Armenia did the fighting. i wont be surprised if more Russians fought for the azeris than they did for the Armenians.