Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Wtf he looks like 12

You're right- he's probably underage. During the first war the Azeri military police press-ganged/kidnapped Lezghins, Talish, and Avars and sent them to the front to die so Azeris could sit safely in cafes in Baku. This ensures that their ethnic minorities will have less manpower should they decide to breakaway from Azerbaijan.

[Mher]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Guys my Armenian isn't that great, is this saying that the Russians forced us into a ceasefire even though we had the upper hand against panicked and deserting Azeris, and were about to take back anything that was lost? It's exactly what I thought, and why our guys were laughing at that video of Lale Tepe. WTF.

[ATTACH]3064[/ATTACH]

Not exactly but close:

"In reality no official ceasefire has been signed. Only an oral informal agreement. Therefore I don't understand why Armenia has agreed to the Russian brokered ceasefire. They agreed at a time when Armenia had the opportunity for counter attack in several different directions. When in the south in a few hours work, we could have retaken the upper ground, same applies to the north. When the Azerbaijani forces at that time were panicking and running away."

[bayhye]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Not exactly but close:

"In reality no official ceasefire has been signed. Only an oral informal agreement. Therefore I don't understand why Armenia has agreed to the Russian brokered ceasefire. They agreed at a time when Armenia had the opportunity for counter attack in several different directions. When in the south in a few hours work, we could have retaken the upper ground, same applies to the north. When the Azerbaijani forces at that time were panicking and running away."

Thank you for the translation! Wow. This is brutal to hear. Edik is traveling with the troops, and I think his son is actually deployed, so he has had very accurate reports. There is a bigger chess game going on, eh?

[Mher]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Protesters in Yerevan Urge Moscow to Halt Arms Sales to Baku


YEREVAN—A procession of hundreds of demonstrators marched from Republic Square to the Russian Embassy in Armenia with angry calls urging Moscow to stop the sale of weapons to Azerbaijan, reported News.am.

During last week’s massive attacks against the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, Azerbaijani forces used weapons Baku acquired from Moscow against Armenian targets. This issue was raised by President Serzh Sarkisian both during his visit to Germany and while meeting with Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev last week.

Russia’s response, as articulated by Medvedev, was that Moscow would continue its arms supplies to Azerbaijan, to deter Baku from acquiring arms from other sources. It has been widely reported that Azerbaijan also deployed drones purchased from Israel during the attacks on Artsakh.

Protesters said that Russia was destabilizing the situation in the region by the sale of weapons to Azerbaijan. They also called on Armenians living in Russia to advance this issue in their host country.

The protesters urged Russia to fulfill its obligations to Armenia as an ally and respect the national interests and Armenia’s security in future decisions. They also vocally demanded that Russia immediately halt the sale of arms to Azrebaijan.

The demonstrators also called on Diaspora communities to, in addition to protesting Azerbaijani diplomatic missions abroad, to include Russian outposts in their acts of grievance.

On Saturday, a similar demonstration took place in front of Armenia’s Foreign Ministry building where the OSCE Minsk Group co-chairmen were holding talks with Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian.

The Saturday protesters decried international inaction regarding the Karabakh conflict and the atrocities committed by Azerbaijan against civilian and military targets. They also demanded international recognition of Artsakh’s independence and urged the mediators to include the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic as a party to the conflict in the negotiating process.

http://asbarez.com/148706/protesters-in-yerevan-urge-moscow-to-halt-arms-sales-to-baku/

[Shant03]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Pointless.. as russia said the turks will just get it from elsewhere such as israel, europe, US..etc.

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Nagorno-Karabakh Defense Army

Isn't this Kornet ATGM?

[ayrudzi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Pointless.. as russia said the turks will just get it from elsewhere such as israel, europe, US..etc.

They still buy weapons from countries other than Russia

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You people and your pro this and anti that. Just be pro-Armenia. It was funny when everyone thought Russia had our best interest in mind, and it's just as funny that some people think they're the only thing stopping us from conquering Azerbaijan. Just a reminder, we had the army we have in large parts thanks to our our military cooperation with Russia. And btw the other side is still much better armed, and a hundred families just lost someone, most of them teenage kids.

Let's not get silly. Russia didn't stop anything. How much did you foresee us going forward? How many people were you willing to see die? Were we gonna take Nakhichevan? Would we retake all of Shahumian? We currently don't have the means for such a mission.

Unless you are volunteering to go participate in this offensive, I find it hypocritical to sit thousand of kms away and watch teenagers get mutilated like its some game. We have this mentality in the diaspora far too much. Because we don't have to live through the daily struggles of life in Armenia. We don't have to deal with the political, economic, and social shortcomings, and we are often ignorant. It's not an accident that this is the most popular thread in this forum. So we have this militaristic mentality. Because it's not war for a national betterment or survival. It's war for the hell of it. war hero Shahe Ajemian last facebook post before heading to the front was this:

Who dies for Armenia ? who gets wounds for Armenia ?
Of curse the only ones who lives in Armenia !!!
All other Armenians are just watchers from far far far away ..........
and i don't want to judge them more !!!!!



Defending your own familiar land in a defensive war, in your well entrenched positions is completely different than an offensive war. Specially when the other side is better armed and has many times more soldiers to spare. That motivation and morale we keep talking about? That comes from knowing youre defending your own land, you're ancestral graves, and have no other option. That doesn't apply nearly as well for random adventures. In fact, it gives the other side some real motivation.

Defending your land out of necessity with no other option is a different matter than an incursion sending eighteen year old kids to their deaths and accidentally starting war and hence undoing twenty five years of nation building through choice is something else.

This isn't a video game where you win or lose and you go home. We are losing the real war. That's our economy and demographic. It doesn't matter if the other side is losing that too. This mission isn't to destroy Azerbaijan. It's to advance Armenia. If you start a full scale war, Armenia loses either way. I don't care what happens to the animals on the other side. There's so much to already do in Armenia, and so little money to do it with, a few more billion dollars of damage, or a few hundred thousand more leaving may be enough to end us as a country.

Now if somehow you believe war is imminent and our best defensive and most efficient move is a preemptive attack, that's a different matter. But if that was the case, our army would have moved in. Or if you somehow you think we can make very strategic gains with minimal losses, that's different. And again, our army would have done it. But I don't see how that's currently possible given our arsenal. Or if the enemy is firing mortars and you're just firing back, that's different.But to go get a single hill in the desert of Hadrut seems idiotic. This isn't Azerbaijan where they posted fifty videos from this one hill that nobody had heard of before a week ago, like they had entered Shushi. We already know we won. I don't understand what the objective would be. You're essentially asking exactly for the dumb thing Aliyev has done.

Azerbaijan is on the verge of self-destruction

http://www.brecorder.com/world/global-business-a-economy/285778-azerbaijans-economy-contracts-by-32pc-in-jan-feb.html

Azerbaijan will not have enough time to fail economically. It'll fail politically long before then. They need a war to prevent that.

They are trying to entice a war. It should be our job to not fall for it. If it's possible to deescalate the situation, and focus on advancing our country while the enemy continues to self-destruct. that is what we need to do.

It's certainly not time to turn against Russia just as a prideful emotional move like that moron saakashvili. There would be nothing to gain from that. Russia can hurt us so much more than we can hurt it. Of course we should be tough with Russia and make the best of deals. But to abandon it for no better alternative just as an act of pride? Did people forget that we have indeed gotten cheap weapons from Russia for the past two decades, and that is a reason we have the confidence we do.

Armenia has made many pragmatic moves over the past decade that have paid off tremendously. We joined the EEU over the AA agreement for all the non economic benefits, and somehow we still managed to economically outperform Georgia, who signed the AA. These decisions have resulted in us being able to survive years of enemy having a military budget of almost ten times ours. Their golden years are done. They were done eighteen months ago. Hence why they attacked. We made it through the worst part. So let's calm down and not make dramatic moves now and undo all of that work when we're almost at the finish line. Soon enough they'll destroy themselves and we can take what we need at a much lower cost. At a point when were are much stronger.

From here on out, the military balance will continue to shift towards us as the economic balance turns towards us. The more we wait the better position we're in militarily. It's utterly idiotic to play into their hands and encourage conflict when you know, as a matter of undeniable fact that every day, they get weaker than the day before.

Great read. Bolding one of the paragraphs for the emotional children who blame Russia for everything to understand what's at stake here.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Pointless.. as russia said the turks will just get it from elsewhere such as israel, europe, US..etc.

These protests need to be cautiously welcomed as long as they are limited like today's protest and aren't hijacked by pro-EU activists. Our leaders know why Russia sells to Azerbaijan but they still rightfully tell the Russians they're not happy. These are all forms of applying soft pressure on Russia which, when coupled with backdoor diplomacy, can lead to Russia delivering even more weapons to us at favorable terms. That is the only solution to the arms buildup of Azerbaijan. We are financially weak and Azerbaijan isn't (for now) so we need to bargain better. Our leaders need to use Medvedev's or Rogozin's point of "balance" and sell to Russia that the balance isn't exactly there and that we need more weapons in addition to the $200 million we'll be receiving soon to achieve a greater balance *cough Iskander cough*.

The $200 million package deal of weapons is an amazing deal, just needs to get to Armenia. We will have Smerch and TOS-1A like them and that Avtobaza-M sounds delicious. Looks like we specifically chose the Avtobaza-M knowing their drone capabilities.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Isn't this Kornet ATGM?

Metis-M