Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    Azerbaijan offers total and unconditional surrender to Armenia — expert opinion

    Read it in Russian

    The inaugural address of Ilham Aliev, President of Azerbaijan, reiterates that Azerbaijan's stance on the settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict remains unchanged, Dr Armen Ayvazyan, Head of the ARARAT Center for Strategic Research told a REGNUM correspondent.

    Dr Ayvazyan noted that Baku rules out, even in theory, the possibility for reasonable compromise with the Armenian side regarding not only the question of territories, but also the future status of Nagorno-Karabakh. “As a matter of fact, the Armenian side is dealing with nothing less than Baku's demand for total and unconditional surrender of Armenia.” This uncompromising stance of Azerbaijan completely undermines the current negotiation process, making it a common farce, which in the future will beget nothing but a full-scale war," Dr Ayvazyan stresses.

    He noted that the Armenian side continues to invoke the “Madrid agreements,” which mention the right of the people of Nagorno-Karabakh to self-determination. “Yet, the right to self-determination may be defined in various ways. De jure, the now defunct Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast was also a form of self-determination: Nevertheless, it was unable to ensure the physical, demographic or cultural security of the Karabakh Armenians.” Dr Ayvazyan further noted that if the parties to the conflict interpret the very fundamental provisions of their agreements differently, then those “agreements” as well as the negotiations that lead to them have no value whatsoever. “After all, with many different interpretations in place, the interpretation that will be implemented will be the one which the stronger side of the conflict forces upon the weaker, in accordance with the ‘might decides right’ principle. Whereas surrender of territories in the meantime will radically decrease the defensibility of the Armenian side,” says the expert.

    In Dr Ayvazyan's opinion, "at a time when Azerbaijan is airing ultimatums, it is suicidal for the Armenian side to make any compromises, especially to concede land — the utmost component of its military security. In this context, the diplomatic overtures by high-ranking Armenian officials towards Azerbaijan and its ally Turkey, are not serious, to say the least. Such unreciprocated pleasantries only mislead the Armenian public.

    The expert highlights that Armenia's stance lacks precisely that clarity which is explicit in Azerbaijan's position on the settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. “Complementary policy, no less inherent in the Azerbaijani foreign policy than in the Armenian one, succeeds only because it clearly draws the line beyond which no compromise is acceptable. This enables Baku to put constant pressure on Armenia and, at the same time, protects her from the pressure and criticism of the mediators and other third parties,” he explains. “As for the current intensive debate in the press about possible scenarios of how the events may unfold in light of the so called ‘pressures’ by Russia on Armenia, this is very much akin to fortune-telling: they torture themselves with the question 'will they or will they not cede'? This attitude is especially evident in the commentary about the remarks of Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, who suggested the ceding of liberated territory, which serves as a security/buffer zone around NKR,” argues Dr Ayvazyan.

    Ayvazyan believes that the number of unknowns in the Russian initiative does not give Yerevan or Baku, and even more so the expert community, any grounds for making far-reaching conclusions. “There is no doubt Russia is trying to make a diplomatic leap into the former Transcaucasus, and it is possible that Russia wants to achieve this by partly sacrificing the interests of Armenia's military security.” But the expert notes that even this Russian scenario, if it really consists of surrendering territories and deploying Russian peacekeepers in and around Karabakh, would not satisfy the ambitions of Azerbaijan. The latter will hardly agree to the presence of Russian military bases on the Nagorno-Karabakh territory, especially when considering the fate of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. “Such scenario cannot be accepted by the Armenian side either. And in this particular case — namely in this life and death issue — the party to the conflict is not the Armenian government, but all Armenian people,” he noted.

    Ayvazyan does not exclude other scenarios as well. “It is possible that an entirely different combination is being laid out by the Kremlin — namely a bluff intended to grab first place in the new game for dominance in the Transcaucasus. A similar short-lived bluff is the Turkish initiative for Caucasus Stability and Security Platform, which, though it has no chance of fruition, is already yielding dividends to Turkey, the initiating side,” Ayvazyan explains.

    The expert deduces that the only somber conclusion that can be made in regard to the current peace talks is that the Karabakh conflict cannot be resolved through negotiations. “A peaceful settlement of the conflict could only imply preservation of the status-quo solidified in a legal form, because all other scenarios will imply resumption of war, with unforeseen consequences for the parties to the conflict as well as to the region at large.” Ayvazyan believes that in the current situation the Armenian leadership should focus its attention not so much on the external processes that defy reliable medium-term forecasts, but on strategic constants of security — such as strengthening the army, utilizing the liberated territory, building effective state institutions, and launching a demographic policy focused on mass repatriation of Armenians.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I wished Ayvazyan could become our next President!

    Comment


    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      In my opinion, all these Medvedev sponsored talks about some sort of settlement of the conflict, Russian peacekeeper deployment propositions etc.etc. are just political giveandtake/arevdour/alish-verish.

      Considering the hard stance, intransigance and uncompromising attitude of both the Armenian and Azeri leaderships, I think these Russian sponsored talks will take a looooong time with hardly anything coming out. I don't mind this kind of mediation, lenghty discussions that drag indefinitly re-enforce the staus -quo in Artsakh, and that is to our advantage.

      I don't think Medvedev himself is optimistic about any immediate outcome. It is all politics. Russia just wants to show to everybody that it is the broker and mediator in the Caucasus. Thats all.

      Comment


      • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

        In reality how long can the status quo continue without an outbrake of large scale combat? What is the price for Armenia to pay in continueing on this path?

        Comment


        • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          With a declining population and aging military equipment is Time really on Armenia's side? I am not disagreeing with you I am just bringing up a point. Time is on our side in that we can better fortify our positions but there are the said disadvantages as well..

          Like my self, im sure most of you have read (in numerous publications) that there are only 2 or 3 unresolved issues between Armenia and Azerbaijan. I'll tell you what these 3 issues are

          1)Karabakh people's right to self-determination
          2)The Fate of the Lachin Corridor
          3)The deployment of international peace keepers

          Basically, They say everything is agreed on when infact the very core issues are not agreed on. I think the only thing agreed on is that Azerbaijan will have some of its 7 districts returned to it, which until they sign a non-use of force agreement and recognize the right of Karabakh would be treason. So don't be fooled, there is absolutely 0 progress made.

          I've also recently watched a video on Karabakh fedayi where they were eating grass and weeds and living in make-shift grass huts joking about eating pizza and they still won...wow, You gotta give it to those karabakhtsi's! I definatley wouldn't want to mess with them.

          Comment


          • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

            Originally posted by truAnatolian View Post
            With a declining population and aging military equipment is Time really on Armenia's side? I am not disagreeing with you I am just bringing up a point. Time is on our side in that we can better fortify our positions but there are the said disadvantages as well..

            Like my self, im sure most of you have read (in numerous publications) that there are only 2 or 3 unresolved issues between Armenia and Azerbaijan. I'll tell you what these 3 issues are

            1)Karabakh people's right to self-determination
            2)The Fate of the Lachin Corridor
            3)The deployment of international peace keepers

            Basically, They say everything is agreed on when infact the very core issues are not agreed on. I think the only thing agreed on is that Azerbaijan will have some of its 7 districts returned to it, which until they sign a non-use of force agreement and recognize the right of Karabakh would be treason. So don't be fooled, there is absolutely 0 progress made.

            I've also recently watched a video on Karabakh fedayi where they were eating grass and weeds and living in make-shift grass huts joking about eating pizza and they still won...wow, You gotta give it to those karabakhtsi's! I definatley wouldn't want to mess with them.
            The video your talking about is from the movie Back forest(the titlecould be wrong but the movie is about the artsakh war) and it's from the war itself not now.

            And time is on our side in 2012 they'll be over their highest point of oil revenue and than all will go downhill. They can wave goodbye to all those money from oil, and without that money they can't keep their army on high standert that they'll need to win a war. Because they are attacking they need numerical and technological suppority. So time is on our side and the declining population is going to change when economy grows.

            Comment


            • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              Originally posted by KarotheGreat View Post
              The video your talking about is from the movie Back forest(the titlecould be wrong but the movie is about the artsakh war) and it's from the war itself not now.

              And time is on our side in 2012 they'll be over their highest point of oil revenue and than all will go downhill. They can wave goodbye to all those money from oil, and without that money they can't keep their army on high standert that they'll need to win a war. Because they are attacking they need numerical and technological suppority. So time is on our side and the declining population is going to change when economy grows.
              ...not to mention that Aliev's regime was counting on oil being over $90 a barrel (oil is currently around $65/barrel) in order to finance their war plans. This overly confident forcasting coupled with Azerbaijan's undeveloped economy is more evidence their war rhetoric is just that - rhetoric.

              Comment


              • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                Assuming a declining economic situation for the Azeris due to declining oil revenues then isn't the best scenario for Armenians to draw this out indefinetly? Look at what the Turks did to us. Look at the West Bank. If you hold something long enough it is yours. Even if you cut a deal in the end the one in possession of the land gets the better deal.

                Comment


                • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  I'd just like to point out to truanatolian that Armenia has been experiencing population growth for the past few years and our military updates its weaponry in a timely manner.

                  As for azerbaijans economy it is all based on oil and gas, not much diversification, compare that to Armenia's which is the financial/banking leader among the Transcaucasian republics and because of its lack of natural resources and closed borders has had to be much more innovative in its economic growth. Based on the factors Armenia has had to deal with, it has done quite well and I'm confident it will continue to expand.
                  For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
                  to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



                  http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

                  Comment


                  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    Originally posted by gmd View Post
                    Assuming a declining economic situation for the Azeris due to declining oil revenues then isn't the best scenario for Armenians to draw this out indefinetly? Look at what the Turks did to us. Look at the West Bank. If you hold something long enough it is yours. Even if you cut a deal in the end the one in possession of the land gets the better deal.
                    I think you're onto somthing

                    ...and seeing as Armenia has the good fortune of the Azeris being stupid (i.e. they will not settle on a compromise while they can), the Azeris will get nothing!

                    Essentially, (as someone said earlier), Azerbaijan, through their stupidity may be offering (inadvertanly of course) a total and unconditional surrender to Armenia.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      There is a show called "places that don't exist" and a british reporter goes both to the Karabakh and Azeri side to report. I was glad to hear that he thought the Armenian trenches were far better built than the azeri ones. I think your right they are relying completely on Oil, its a good thing we have those S-300's!

                      I must admit thought I wan't happy to see all those Azeri's living in rail cars. I wish they would just accept the defeat and then they could live in karabakh with us. For some reason multiculturalism is not only impossible in the caucasus but a threat to national security.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X