Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I cannot believe what I am reading.. people are defending this guy and his two murderous sons actions because of a portrait in his living room?

I have Kim Kardashian's portrait in my bathroom if anyone's interested

[Artsakh]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I cannot believe what I am reading.. people are defending this guy and his two murderous sons actions because of a portrait in his living room?

You know what, no one is defending any wrongdoing by anyone "because of a portrait in his living room." Like I said, I respect Manvel because unlike the rest he's a straight shooter who doesn't hide anything and says it straight out. Irrespective of it all, I think it's safe to say he's done more for the nation thru plunder and what not, than you have thru you cyber-activism. Cuz when the shet hits the fan and push comes to shove, he and the Yerkrapah are at the fronts, while you're sitting behind a computer screen.

[HajiHabibli]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You know what, no one is defending any wrongdoing by anyone "because of a portrait in his living room." Like I said, I respect Manvel because unlike the rest he's a straight shooter who doesn't hide anything and says it straight out. Irrespective of it all, I think it's safe to say he's done more for the nation thru plunder and what not, than you have thru you cyber-activism. Cuz when the shet hits the fan and push comes to shove, he and the Yerkrapah are at the fronts, while you're sitting behind a computer screen.

Artsakh, I respectfully disagree. He has done nothing but ruin the country through his plunder. You're correct, when push comes to shove, the yerkrapah are always at the front. Him, not so much. It has been universally stated by everyone who knows him and who has actually fought, that he hasn't done xxxx personally. He's not the yerkrapah. Even if he was a war hero, that doesn't give him a pass for all the damage he has caused to the country. He deserves to be in prison. In that sense, the cyber-activists have done more for Armenia because doing nothing at all is better than pillaging your own country.

Unfortunately, he is not the only such "war-hero" raping the country today.

[argin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

There is a shop in Yerevan which sells patches and uniforms as well. Nothing unusual.
Also, it might be that Lubawa Armenia is promoting them in Poland.

To be honest I also thought that might be the case!the picture is in the website,if was probably a few uniforms Azeris just add spice to it

[Artsakh]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Artsakh, I respectfully disagree. He has done nothing but ruin the country through his plunder. You're correct, when push comes to shove, the yerkrapah are always at the front. Him, not so much. It has been universally stated by everyone who knows him and who has actually fought, that he hasn't done xxxx personally. He's not the yerkrapah. Even if he was a war hero, that doesn't give him a pass for all the damage he has caused to the country. He deserves to be in prison. In that sense, the cyber-activists have done more for Armenia because doing nothing at all is better than pillaging your own country.

Unfortunately, he is not the only such "war-hero" raping the country today.

If you want to talk about plunder, start by looking at the current head of state (president sargsyan), his brother sashik who purchased a 12 million dollar house in the US; look at the prior president Kocharyan; then work your way down. Just because they wear suits and are low profile, doesn't mean they plunder less. If you want to talk about plunder, manvel is by no means a dodi gago with his own mountain, but lives right in the midst of the ordinary folk of ejmiadzin. I know he's not an angle and im not defending his misdeeds. To ignore or dismiss his contributions would be wrong. No matter how controversial vasgen sargsyan was, no one questions his contribution to the Karabkh liberation movement, here's what he had to say about manvel:

[HajiHabibli]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

If you want to talk about plunder, start by looking at the current head of state (president sargsyan), his brother sashik who purchased a 12 million dollar house in the US; look at the prior president Kocharyan; then work your way down. Just because they wear suits and are low profile, doesn't mean they plunder less. If you want to talk about plunder, manvel is by no means a dodi gago with his own mountain, but lives right in the midst of the ordinary folk of ejmiadzin. I know he's not an angle and im not defending his misdeeds. To ignore or dismiss his contributions would be wrong. No matter how controversial vasgen sargsyan was, no one questions his contribution to the Karabkh liberation movement, here's what he had to say about manvel:

No question about it. I would assume no one has plundered more than the current and former presidents. Manvel lives in Ejmiazin and from all accounts, he has declared himself the unofficial feudal lord of the city. I know a number of people who have dealt with him or live in ejmiadzin, who have said the exact same things about him (they're not close friends or family members, so don't assume i have a personal grudge against him).

And again, I don't really know what his contributions are that you speak of. You can't compare him to Vazgen Sargsyan. And as far as what Sargsyan had to say about manvel, I would take it with a bit of grain and salt. This was 90s Armenian politics. There are a lot of great things Sargsyan said about LTP too at certain times.

We agree on the plunder issue. But, the crux of my argument is that he also was not the war hero he and some portray him to be. Physically being in Artsakh between 1988-1994 does not make you a war hero.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Physically being in Artsakh between 1988-1994 does not make you a war hero.

During first war, the small detachment, headed by Manvel was based in Hadrut's Ughdadzor/Etillu village first.
He had no noticed war deeds at its active.
Most major operations, bigining by Togh village's liberation were done by local detachments, headed by Vigen, Aramo,.... Manvel was only cited in small scandals...
His ONLY specificity: he was not a Dashnag, as most if not all others in Hadrut were.
He was handpicked by the HHSh regime and grown "hero" for that simple reason, plus probably because he was a criminal type, easiyer to control...
In this handpicking, he was no exeption.
The same Samo /aka Kamandushi, or Serjik in NKR, or Liska in Goris were handpicked mainly for same reason by the HHSh, not being Dashnag + criminal type...

Not a single operation was planned or executed by Manvel.
His role was mainly to keep what better organised and disciplined troops did liberate. He was the back keeper, .... , and when he had to defend a position, he was recklessly disrepectful of his men life.
He had so many problems and scandals, he was ejected from Hadrut by local population and commanders, not as a hero.....
The same Vahan Badassyan was one of the local officers, as was Arthur Aghapekyan, actual Vice PM of NKR, also vice DM like Manvel, one of the 4 surprise VDM... . So when those say something on him, they do know perfectly what they say, and what kind of clown he is.
Being ill famed, he had few volonteer/azadamartik men ready to follow him.
Unfortunately, to save their elected poney, they gave him command of newly formed conscript troops, big troops in those days...
While other commanders retreated, maneuvered......, he just ordered to stay put. For one sigle village called Hakop Kamari in Martakert, he lost nearly 200 lives... he was labeled as Ghassab Manvel by Artsakhtzis. That says a lot. But he preserved his fame, Manvel did not retreat!
When things got better in 1993, and we were on advance mode, he had more and more job of keeper, with more and more troops to cover the territory.
Yet at my knowledge, he never used his AK, or risked his life knowingly, as did most famed commanders.
I have never seen a man having seen fight, talking with respect, let alone admiration about him. He just was never there.
Problem is, that situation gave him time and possibility to be a good Talantchi.

After the cease fire, he was awarded huge sectors of southern Dizag (but Hadrutzis refused his return to former Hadrut district, given their previous experience).
So he did install his HQ in newly found Ara Ler...., from there , he was pushed steadily back to Goris..., where his V brigade was based, untill his nomination to General and Vice DM.

Conclusion: he is NOT a war Hero.
He did much, much more harm to our camp, than to the enemy.

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

During first war, the small detachment, headed by Manvel was based in Hadrut's Ughdadzor/Etillu village first.
He had no noticed war deeds at its active.
Most major operations, bigining by Togh village's liberation were done by local detachments, headed by Vigen, Aramo,.... Manvel was only cited in small scandals...
His ONLY specificity: he was not a Dashnag, as most if not all others in Hadrut were.
He was handpicked by the HHSh regime and grown "hero" for that simple reason, plus probably because he was a criminal type, easiyer to control...
In this handpicking, he was no exeption.
The same Samo /aka Kamandushi, or Serjik in NKR, or Liska in Goris were handpicked mainly for same reason by the HHSh, not being Dashnag + criminal type...

Not a single operation was planned or executed by Manvel.
His role was mainly to keep what better organised and disciplined troops did liberate. He was the back keeper, .... , and when he had to defend a position, he was recklessly disrepectful of his men life.
He had so many problems and scandals, he was ejected from Hadrut by local population and commanders, not as a hero.....
The same Vahan Badassyan was one of the local officers, as was Arthur Aghapekyan, actual Vice PM of NKR, also vice DM like Manvel, one of the 4 surprise VDM... . So when those say something on him, they do know perfectly what they say, and what kind of clown he is.
Being ill famed, he had few volonteer/azadamartik men ready to follow him.
Unfortunately, to save their elected poney, they gave him command of newly formed conscript troops, big troops in those days...
While other commanders retreated, maneuvered......, he just ordered to stay put. For one sigle village called Hakop Kamari in Martakert, he lost nearly 200 lives... he was labeled as Ghassab Manvel by Artsakhtzis. That says a lot. But he preserved his fame, Manvel did not retreat!
When things got better in 1993, and we were on advance mode, he had more and more job of keeper, with more and more troops to cover the territory.
Yet at my knowledge, he never used his AK, or risked his life knowingly, as did most famed commanders.
I have never seen a man having seen fight, talking with respect, let alone admiration about him. He just was never there.
Problem is, that situation gave him time and possibility to be a good Talantchi.

After the cease fire, he was awarded huge sectors of southern Dizag (but Hadrutzis refused his return to former Hadrut district, given their previous experience).
So he did install his HQ in newly found Ara Ler...., from there , he was pushed steadily back to Goris..., where his V brigade was based, untill his nomination to General and Vice DM.

Conclusion: he is NOT a war Hero.
He did much, much more harm to our camp, than to the enemy.

Vrej- thank you for this synopsis. You can only imagine what more would have been accomplished and what losses (then and now) could have been avoided if all commanders were qualified, diligent, honest, and persistent.

I am hopeful that the broken parts of the machine are replaced to avoid future missteps and misdeeds; I hope that the Armenian and NKR gov't/military learn from these mistakes and make the necessary adjustments. It will only benefit Armenia and Artaskh in all facets of Armenian society. Sunshine is the best disinfectant is so I hope civil society keeps up the pressure and transparency of such bad actors.

[ASALA2116]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You know what, no one is defending any wrongdoing by anyone "because of a portrait in his living room." Like I said, I respect Manvel because unlike the rest he's a straight shooter who doesn't hide anything and says it straight out. Irrespective of it all, I think it's safe to say he's done more for the nation thru plunder and what not, than you have thru you cyber-activism. Cuz when the shet hits the fan and push comes to shove, he and the Yerkrapah are at the fronts, while you're sitting behind a computer screen.

They all deserve to be brought to knees and the cheapest bullet blown into there brains. Armenia doesn't need maggot thieves .. It needs Nationalistic leaders who actually think of its people.

Without the involvement of the diaspora , these blood suckers will continue to build more mansions .. My wife is in Armenia and looking for a job . After months of failure she actually got a job intterview at a tourist agency as she has a degree in Tourism . She was offered $150 a month. I literally make that in 3 hours of work and she laughed and said , This is Armenia.. Before this job she worked at Pics Art in Tumo Centre , she would work graveyard shifts which is from 10 pm to 6 am 6 days a week and she would get $200 a month. So her yearly income is $2400 .. Who the hell could survive on that.

So please do me a favor. Don't defend these pigs that are so called hero's. They all deserve to be killed. They ruined Armenia from becoming a great nation. Its got all the tools but led by germs.

[Shant03]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

These leaches have and continue to suck the life out of Armenia.. but fear not.. change is coming.