Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[HajiHabibli]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Solving our problems with Azerbaijan peacefully would also allow us on focusing more of our effort on regaining regions like Kars, Ardahan and Mt. Ararat. We should have made claims to those lands yesterday....

Lori, you have to take into consideration that you can't separate Turkey and Azerbaijan any longer. The eastern sheep xxxxer will continue to be a thorn in our side as long as the western sheep xxxxer tells him to be.

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You are seeing things the wrong way. turks should first agree on giving back Kars, Ardalan and Mt. Ararat before dispensing our safety and security.

The issue with that is, it might spark war. BTC pipeline and Kars railway runs through there. If those lands were to be ceded to us, then Azerbaijan would have no choice but to declare war. If we are to regain any land from the Turks, it would be those two provinces + Mt Ararat as an enclave. These are the lands we should claim at the very least. Even if the Kemalists never agree to it, doesnt matter. We cannot let it go.

Lori, you have to take into consideration that you can't separate Turkey and Azerbaijan any longer. The eastern sheep xxxxer will continue to be a thorn in our side as long as the western sheep xxxxer tells him to be.

Trust me I don't. I've suspected for a long time that the Azerbaijani military was controlled by Turkey. I think its been happening since at least 2006

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

ՀԱՊԿ ՕԱՀՈւ «Կոբալտ 2016» համատեղ վարժանքները

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

There is important topic here that everyone must think about.
We say that Aliev is using Karabakh issue to stay in power and is not really interested in solving this issue.
I say, looks like our oligarchic government is using the same issue equally and I am not sure has any intentions of solving this conflict at all.
We are not talking about Russia not interested in solving it.
We are talking about circles at home that used the fear and worries of people about Artsakh to stay in power, prevent any progress and fatten up themselves for over 22 years.
Why would they want to change it really?
That is why when our government scares us with war and defeat, blockade etc... And our opposition keeps blaming a lot on Russia, I say everything is from within.
This debate about the 800 hectares, modernization of amaments etc serves the rulers first place as a destruction of public from real issues.
Why not keep them going?
I am not saying the 800 hectares or armaments are not important. But there is a bigger and deeper issue here that is the root of every evil.
Change the sistem and instead of loosing 4 Billion from national wealth to private offshores you can arm to the teeth.
Instead of debating 800 hectares, your real national government will solve problems one by one.
When they call for unity, and people unites on the face of enemy attack and ready to sacrifice, I don't see the government or oligarchs really uniting with people. Don't let PR footage of oligarchs fool you. They are just worming their places in new situation.
They have to go. Government has to go. New discipline (severely populist and national) has to be implemented.

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

We say that Aliev is using Karabakh issue to stay in power and is not really interested in solving this issue.
I say, looks like our oligarchic government is using the same issue equally and I am not sure has any intentions of solving this conflict at all.

There is saying among many experts on the conflict. Many believe that Artsakh conquered Armenia, not Azerbaijan.

I say, looks like our oligarchic government is using the same issue equally and I am not sure has any intentions of solving this conflict at all.

I've seen this allegation many times, and it has a legitimate concern. However, I don't think it is entirely true. Artsakh is absolutely vital to our national security. If they take Artsakh, they can seize Syunik is just a matter of hours. If we lose Syunik, its permanently over. This is a fight for survival, its not a distraction. I do agree however that many in Armenia are using the contact line violations to distract people from everyday leeching. The whole argument of 800 hectares is without a doubt just a distraction. They are abusing the fragile Armenian mindset of LOSS. Hayazn and many other small groups "oppositionists", flipped their $%@! over it, further perpetuating this distraction. 800 hectares is nothing, you can hardly represent it on a wikipedia map.

The issue over modernization of armaments is a bit exaggerated by the media, as I dont think many people in Armenia understand how arms exports work. Its not a supermarket. There are dozens of contracts just for the delivery process. They have to be manufactured and what not.

They have to go. Government has to go. New discipline (severely populist and national) has to be implemented.

I wouldn't say the government has to go. Vazgen's inner circle, the hardliners from the 90s (Serzh, Kocharyan) and their clans have to either get knocked down from their decision making positions or a second opinion must be included in the government - this is where the ARF comes in.

We don't need populism. Raffi and his circus is populism, they are just a bunch of idiots. They seriously submitted a resolution to recognize Artsakh, that would have started a war!!! They would do ANYTHING to gain popularity among the people, they use Georgian election tactics. They are very reckless and dangerous, they will destroy this country just to be able to sell the scraps to the West.

We have nationalism, just not the right brand. No more of this Putinist national conservativism. We need our Armenianism back, our Dashnaks.

[Shant03]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Great to have you Lori, looks like I can take a backseat and just lurk for a while.

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

ՀԱՊԿ ՕԱՀՈւ «Կոբալտ 2016» համատեղ վարժանքները

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I actually appreciates everyone's point of view on this forum. There are many good points and counterpoints to be found here and to have such an informed and diverse membership really makes this forum a great place. I've learned so much here. Just wanted to let you all know. Makes me really appreciate my fellow Armenians even more. I respect and thank you all.

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I saw weird dream last night.
Armenia was operating large quantities of T-80U tanks.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Lori,
You name Dashnags as a way to changing situation. I disagree.
Not only Dashnags but also any group is a bad idea. It will lead to even more factionalism and really harm our struggle.
The only structure we got that's pure enough and strong enough and with allmost full public support is our army.
I see an army overthriw only way on changing ruling clans. And I say it must be on populist nationalist platform because without it it would turn into military junta. That we don't want.
Nobody, including Dashnags, with all the popular support possible in Armenia can overthrow current rulers.
Look in the past, how public outcries have turned into mockery and factionalism.
Our military bears the trust and responsibility to do it.
That is why I am discussing it in this thread.
Those interviews and criticisms by earned military veterans is the tip of iceberg of military's just dissatisfactions of government.
All the actions of those clowns like General Manvel or Surik or oligarchs like Samo or lfik are slap on the face of our army and general command over and over for past 22 years.
Everybody in army believe that they have to endure those things in order to fulfill their duty to motherland without distractions.
Soon, if not allready everybody will see that they don't have to. The army is much stronger than it can think of itself. Then it might spring into action.
Important thing is to circulate this idea and beliefs into how it will be done in Armenia.
There is a single unity in our country, people and army, that must protect itself as soon as possible.