Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

ՀԱՊԿ ՕԱՀՈւ «Կոբալտ 2016» համատեղ վարժանքները

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I think our air defense network and forces have more or less negated the Azerbaijani air force, especially their MiG-29s. (Which are most susceptible to our air defense systems like the S300, Kub, Pechora). The actual gap between our air force and theirs is not very big either.

Yes, we look like a porcupine.

Due to our small size, our air defense is also heavily concentrated Leaving them little room to maneuver and operate.

Leave that to our flyboys. there is plenty of room to manoeuver.......especially when we liberate more land.

They have 34 drones total. How many did they lose in April, and how much of that can we verify?

I suspect they may have lost the majority of their fleet, or at the very least half of it.

You are not seriously comparing drones to a SU-25? One SU-25 would have put the frontline Azeri positions on fire at 500 knots 100ft altitude above ground (even napalm would do). no way forward no way back......as sky will light up then you may not need thermal imaging as much.

Yes, we have plenty of tanks but the quality is severely lacking. We could have the best crewmen in the world, modern tanks still provide clear advantages.

Trench war is 100 years old......air superiority wins war.At least be able to maintain air superiority over Armenia.

You idea of modernization of our SU-25 and purchasing more SU-25 with air to air capability is very good

Migs29? well yes, hard to get, but consider this. If we take the fight to the enemy your ground missile systems will be useless except for a few with long rang or mobile ones. They will launch their migs and our SU-25s will be sitting ducks over Azeri held territory. However with migs, if we have a few we can engage them and keep them busy, maybe even get a kill.

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You're wrong dude. We don't have T-72BA in service.
I think you're mixing up between T-72BA and T-72B/B1 obr. 1989 with Kontakt-5 ERA.
We have T-72A obr. 1981 and 1984, T-72AV, T-72B and B1 with Kontakt-1 ERC, and T-72B/B1 obr. 1989 with Kontakt-5 ERA.

What do you expect to modernize and buy with a budget of $500 million?

Azeris have not changed their entire BMP-2 fleet with BMP-3s.
They haven't yet received their BMP-3s.
The BMP-2 is an excellent AFV.

You're right, I got it mixed up. Would you say we have a majority of T72B? Ive only really seen one AV in service.

I never said they replaced their entire fleet, if I did then it was a typo. I said they retained some of their BMP-2s because of the poor troop transport capabilities of the BMP-3.

And they ordered and received their BMP-3s years ago.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Azeri_BMP-3,_parad_in_Baku,_2013.JPG

You are wrong on the last part. The BMP-2 is an absolutely horrid vehicle with an equally horrific service record. Its not only the Finnish soldier who has had a terrible experience. Also, take note of what he is saying in the QnA. Finland uses both the BMP series and the CV-90, a more modern IFV. He has had experience with both. The BMP-3 isn't great either, but its actually has a bigger improvement gap with its predecessor than the BMP-2 does with its predecessor.


Its chassis is more or less the same as the BMP-1, which has an infamous reputation because of Afghanistan. The IFV is just bad. There is a reason why soldiers in almost all user states ride ontop of them and not inside. The same with the BTR, which is a terribly designed vehicle. (Seriously, whoever designed the engine placement and exits on that vehicle needs to be executed by firing squad.)

We can upgrade plenty with just 500 million. In fact, I recall reading about the cost of T72B upgrades in the Russian Army. It costs them somewhere around 500-800 thousand dollars to fully upgrade a T72B to B3 standard.

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

T-72B to B3M costs $234,000 for the Russian Army.
T-72B3M is very close to the T-90. Actually the T-90 was going to be named T-72BU, but they named it T-90 to attract more sales from idiots like the Azeris.



B3M vs T-90

From what I've seen the majority of our tanks are T-72B, yes.

The best IFV would be a heavily armored one on a T-55 chassis.

The Azeris have not received a large part of their BMP-3s because of debts. Razm.info has an article on this.

You cannot do much when your entire defense budget is $500 million.

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Yes, we look like a porcupine.



Leave that to our flyboys. there is plenty of room to manoeuver.......especially when we liberate more land.

I'm talking about the Azeris Eddo...

You are not seriously comparing drones to a SU-25? One SU-25 would have put the frontline Azeri positions on fire at 500 knots 100ft altitude above ground (even napalm would do). no way forward no way back......as sky will light up then you may not need thermal imaging as much.

Uh...I'm not. I think you are confused, that was a separate question that I had asked.

Something I saw NO ONE address: Their drone fleet. How much of it did they lose in April?

They have 34 drones total. How many did they lose in April, and how much of that can we verify?

I suspect they may have lost the majority of their fleet, or at the very least half of it.

Trench war is 100 years old......air superiority wins war.At least be able to maintain air superiority over Armenia.

Eddo, the quote was about tanks not trench warfare. Either way, its not exactly trench warfare. Its only like that on the frontline. Trenches are a fortification, one of the most basic.

Migs29? well yes, hard to get, but consider this. If we take the fight to the enemy your ground missile systems will be useless except for a few with long rang or mobile ones. They will launch their migs and our SU-25s will be sitting ducks over Azeri held territory. However with migs, if we have a few we can engage them and keep them busy, maybe even get a kill.

Aha! We do not need MiG-29s to keep their one squadron busy Eddo. Its called a SPAD (Self-propelled air defense system). Basically, systems like Tunguskas or Pantsir-S1s. The Russians used this in Ukraine to fend off the Ukrainian Air Force. They also are made to accompany armored columns when driving into enemy territory or advancing. They are capable of engaging multirole fighters, especially the MiG-29.


Ya know, I have been thinking about the possibility of liberating Northern Artsakh in the case of a war. Hayazn has talked about liberating Gandzak and making our border with Georgia longer, however I think that is a bit far-fetched. (Def possibly, due to the proximity of the city to the frontline and Armenia). Its a huge city.

Pushing to Baku, I don't its possible with our manpower. They would wear us down. The Russians would have to join the war, and open up a second front near Kachmaz and Sheki.


Armnuke, can you link me the article? I am interested. And wow, that is cheaper than I had expected. However, I'm pretty sure the T90A and S variants have welded turrets? Pretty sure that provides a slight armored advantage?

We should immediately look into purchasing the Kurg-25 once they become available for export. That is a giant leap from the inferior BMP series.

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

There are many rumors.....

Yes

But the latest rumours are, all previous rumours to be ignored.


.

[AbuSindi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

There will be no peace without the exchanging of lands. Its that simple. I suggest you read up on all the settlement plans, you will see that there are much worse options for Armenia. Only people here who are sick in the head are the ones who actually believe that Armenia has the resources and abilities to survive this siege-like status quo.

Peace in Artsakh will open the road to Western Armenia. Not war. The only way to achieve this is what Samvel suggested. Territorial concessions, on our terms

Lori jan, I strongly disagree with you. I believe you are making a big mistake by assuming our enemies our civil and law abiding people. They cannot even abide to a cease fire. What makes you think they will obey a peace treaty? No territorial concessions shall be made. Initially, when we liberated certain territories the intent was to use them as a bargaining chip in return for legal status for Karabakh. That is no longer the case. Their actions over the years has shown they cannot be trusted. They even rejected the Kazan Plan which would have been disastrous for us. Now what does that tell you? That somehow they will now be satisfied with just the return of the territories you mentioned? On the contrary, it would embolden them and bring them closer to our densely inhabited cities and villages. They are already making territorial claims to Syunik for goodness sake! Even Aliyev himself has made claims to Yerevan! With all due respect, your idea is quite foolish. It may have been a plan worth considering one point in time, but that time is long gone. We will never make that mistake.

Also, to other members of the forum...please let's all be respectful of different opinions. Let's cease accusing people with wildly unpopular opinions of being a Turk

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Are you Armenian?

Thats what I was thinking.

.

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Look who's here again
Aslanov efendi from Azerbaijan.

[ASALA2116]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Lori I got no drama with you , just only when you talk about land concessions and peace , know you are in a forum full of nationalists and people who research heavily on events on the front line etc. We cannot accept land concessions with an oppressor state who occupies Armenian territory till today . We are basically all on the same page here ideologically (wishing the best for Armenias protection with a God given Army ). Yes so talking about peace is a weak Armenia and we are not weak. My wife is from Karabagh. She weighs 56 kilos and she told me if the men die the women will take there place. One inch of Karabagh will not be given back. Many men became Martyrs for these lands.
I respect your opinions but I can't accept them. Cheers Lori