Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Haykakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

December 22, 2016xx17:20
Russia-US rapprocehemt stems from strategic interests of Armenia’s national security
Lieutenant General Hayk S. Kotanjian - D.Sc. (Political Science, Russia), Professor (Armenia), Distinguished Visiting Member of Faculty at the National Defense University (USA), Visiting Scholar at the Harvard National Security Program, Full Elected Member of Russian Academy of Military Sciences, Member of CSTO Academic-Expert Board, Head of the National Defense Research University, delivered a speech at the joint session of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs of Armenia and the Russian State Duma Committee on CIS Affairs, Eurasian Integration and Compatriots Affairs in Yerevan on December 22.


STEPANAKERT, DECEMBER 22, ARTSAKHPRESS-ARMENPRESS:xArmenia’s Balanced Foreign Policy as a Strategic Opportunity to create a Platform for Establishing a Dialogue bewteen Russia and The US
“Dear Co-Chairs,
Dear Colleagues,
Since the date of its independence in 1991, the cornerstone of Armenia’s security policy has been its balance, as well as the desire to establish partnerships both with neighboring states and with extra-regional power centers. This choice reflects the geostrategic realities and the geopolitical imperatives for the independent Armenian state to effectively carry out its activities and be the guarantor of sustainable development and security of 11 million Armenians of the Republic of Armenia, the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, and the Diaspora. At the same time, the immutability of this balance under all hardships that have arisen in relations between its allies and partners, primarily ‒ between Russia and the US, merits a mention. I have the honor to highlight that Armenia is Russia’s strategic ally, the bilateral security relations with which Armenia complements through strategic cooperation with it and other states in a multilateral format within the framework of the CSTO.
The current stage of the Armenian-Russian military and military-technical cooperation is characterized by high dynamics due to the attention of the Heads of our fraternal states in this sphere of interstate relations. In this sense, the Armenian-Russian Business Forum of 2013 held in Gyumri with the participation of the Russian President Vladimir Putin and the President of Armenia Serzh Sargsyan became a momentous event. The Forum was preceded by the visit of the Presidents to the 102nd Russian Military Base with the discussion of its military-technical modernization tasks and improvement of service efficiency.
In my opinion, the solution of these problems, under the creation of the Joint Group of Troops (Forces) of the Armenian and Russian Armed Forces, lends considerable urgency to the concerned discussion of the project of establishing an Armenian-Russian defense industry complex in Gyumri between the Armenian and Russian sides. In so doing, it is advisable to calculate the diversified scale of this complex in such a way that it, along with the 102nd Base’s modernization tasks, becomes a platform for forging military-technical business cooperation between Russia and the states bordering with Armenia – with an access to the traditional for Russia arms markets located there. At the same time, the creation of jobs in Gyumri would become a factor in improving the demographic situation in the city of the 102nd Base’s deployment and strengthen the social ties of the local Armenian population with the military personnel of the Russian Military Base.
In his yesterday’s interview to the Russian media, the Minister of Defense of the Republic of Armenia Vigen Sargsyan emphasized the importance of the systemic deployment of a joint military-industrial enterprise in relation to the modernization of the 102nd Base in Gyumri. x
As a start-up phase of this defense industry project, it is expedient to consider the establishment of the Armenian-Russian enterprise for the repair and maintenance of arms and military equipment of the 102nd Russian Military Base in Shirak Region. As for staffing solutions to these problems, it would be logical for this Armenian-Russian defense industry enterprise to provide for the establishment of its own multisectoral technical college. The agreements on the trade-economic, scientific-technical and cultural cooperation between Armenia’s Shirak Region and the regions of Ulyanovsk and Rostov of Russia can serve as an international legal basis for this[1]. A special role in solving this strategically important task ‒ in pursuance of the Agreement “On Cooperation in the Trade-Economic, Scientific-Technical, and Cultural Spheres between the Administrations of Shirak Region and Ulyanovsk Region: 15.09.2009”[2]x– can play the developed defense industry complex of Ulyanovsk Region, where the share of defense industry enterprises in the total production of the region is about 80%. The importance of engaging Rostov Region in the phased deployment of this military-industrial enterprise of regional significance is due to the fact that the Command of the North Caucasus Military District, responsible for directing the activities of the military base in Gyumri, is situated in Rostov.
In our view, adding a special section dedicated to the prospects of military-technical and defense industry cooperation to the agendas of regional forums may become an important impetus for the sustainable economic, military-technical and social development of the regions of both states. Judging by the innovative orientation of the new Government of the Republic of Armenia, this will make the Armenian-Russian cooperation in creating a multisectoral military-industrial enterprise in Gyumri one of its strategic priorities.
As was mentioned above, pursuing its strategic security interests in the balance of orientation in relation to Moscow, Washington, and Brussels, Armenia, along with its cooperation with the Russian Federation and the CSTO, efficiently collaborates with such Euro-Atlantic power centers as the US, NATO and the European Union. From 2005 on, Armenia has been effectively implementing the NATO Individual Partnership Action Plans, targeted at the advancement of defense security reforms. Our state also increases its involvement in the system of international security through participating in peacekeeping operations in Iraq, Kosovo, and now also in Afghanistan, Lebanon, and Mali.
In this context, the 25-year-old strategic partnership with the United States is of particular significance for Armenia. Being one of the main donors for the Republic of Armenia, the US plays a key role in the process of implementing structural reforms targeted at the modernization of the public administration system, taking effective measures in human rights protection and fight against corruption, thus making a significant contribution to the development of the independent statehood of Armenia. The participation of both the US and Russia together with France in maintaining consensus regarding the principles of the peaceful settlement of the Karabakh Conflict is of special importance.
In view of the above said and the confrontation in US-Russian relations, typical of the past few years, it should be noted that it significantly limits Armenia’s resources for implementing a balanced foreign policy. In this sense, the rapprochement between Russia and the United States stems from strategic interests of Armenia’s national security. We believe that the long-term balance of strategic alliance between Armenia and Russia and that of the strategic partnership between Armenia and the United States provides an opportunity to consider Armenia as a mutually acceptable platform for establishing xdialogue between Russia and the United States.
Establishing a platform for dialogue between Russia and the United States gains particular importance in the period of specification of the strategic priorities of Moscow and Washington before the newly-elected US President takes the office. In this sense, the Armenian academic platform for consultation and exchange of messages for the US-Russian dialogue can be used not only in the discussion of current bilateral relations, but also the issues of strategic caliber relating to the global and regional security dynamics. The experience of successful academic and expert forums held by our Institute for National Strategic Studies of the Ministry of Defense with the participation of leading representatives of such security schools as MGIMO University (Moscow State Institute of International Relations) of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, Harvard University, the US National Defense University, the British Chatham House, University of Jerusalem, Istanbul University “Kadir Has” among others, speaks in support of this assessment of Armenia’s role in establishing the US-Russian dialog.
An evidence of the liability of the Institute for National Strategic Studies in supporting the Republic of Armenia’s role in building academic-expert platforms on strategic issues of international security is its recent participation in the process of strategic review of the UN Peacekeeping Strategy with the discussion of the results of that review at the Strategic Forum we organized in Yerevan. And the Strategic Forum in 2015 was a starting platform for promoting this peacekeeping cooperation on academic-expert level, when, after the reunification of the Crimea with Russia – in an acute phase of Russia’s relations with the West – we were able to unite security experts both from Russia and other CSTO member states, as well as from the US and other NATO member states around the same table in Yerevan, for dialogue and exchange of messages.
Let me express confidence in the importance of continuing the Republic of Armenia’s mission in general, as well as represented by its leading state analytical center for national and international security problems – the National Defense Research University – as an academic-expert platform in establishing consultations and dialogue between Armenia’s ally – Russia, and its partner – the United States”.

[1]xPress Conference of President Serzh Sargsyan and President Vladimir Putin on the Results of the Meeting: 02.12.2013.xhttp://www.president.am/en/interviews-and-press-conferences/item/2013/12/02/President-Serzh-Sargsyan-press-conference-with-the-President-of-Russian-Federation/.x
[2]xInterregional Cooperation. http://arm.rs.gov.ru/node/541.

http://artsakhpress.am/eng/news/58668/russia-us-rapprocehemt-stems-from-strategic-interests-of-armenia%E2%80%99s-national-security.html

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenian Air Force

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

First of all I have seen many stupid discussions here but this discussion about burnt turk soldiers is like the beginning of a new dimension of idioty.
I think the reason of haydavids reaction is not his respect for turkish army members but that he feels uncomfortable seeing Armenians laughing about this video. I had the same feeling. It has something very strange that we are celebrating the actions of an organization that is killing more Armenians than turks and an action we would never wish to see done by ourselves. It would be a shame for me to see Armenian soldiers killing turkish or azeri captives not because I would have so much respect for these soldiers but because it is not the behaviour of a real man. We should never forget that we are strong because our society isn't producing Ramil Safarovs or such bastards like the guys who were posing with Qyarams head. So if IS burns turk soldiers we shouldn't react. Our goal is not to see some turks burnt alive by jihadists for their own political interests but to take back what belongs to us. And everything besides that shouldn't be a reason for pleasure for us.

Vahram Jan, the issue is not about right or wrong of doing it, the issue here is the normal reaction of any person to an enemy (in this case Turkish soldier, enemy, because of soldier) being killed, which is a part of a complete being. A national.
For some, it's very hard to see all, because they will not or cannot differentiate and accept particular characters of human being and go with a nation's supposedly accepted or established character for a given scenario or instance.
Worse is when they mix it with ideals like Christianity, democracy or other philosophies, thus putting a straight jacket and distorting our mutual national survival instincts.
What is it, Turks and Muslim extremists have a "privilege" to burn and I have a "privilege" to get burned because I am the first Christian nation with higher morals and they are low human Muslim Turks?
No, we are all the same but driven by our diffrent ideals.
I have been observing the comments and reactions in social media for a long time. And have seen that all nations and all faiths react pretty much the same to everything.
I have seen a European human right buff that goes crazy for gay, women, environmental issues put a comment like "good, need to do this more, so Russians learn their lessons", under picture of dead Russian mother still hugging her dead child after mortar attack, etc, etc...
I lived in Jermuk for 1 mont in 1972, there were lot of azery Turks living that particular section. Every time we, Armenian kids went out to play azery kids would start harassing us. A couple of times they pulled out knives. Every time, Armenian parents would run out and with trembling in fear take their kids in.
Once as we were playing, I saw an azery woman yell at the kids "break their legs" in Turkish. They never pulled their children back, just stood and watched. But my mom and dad would lecture me how I was a better and more "khelatsi" then them. But the worse thing was that our parent's fear sort of got to us too. Despite being more in numbers, were afraid of azeri kids.
That was untill one day a vacationing Leninakantsi family showed up with twin sons and their cousin. After the first day of humiliation, they showed up with broomsticks and asked everybody to join to "ertanq edonts her@ shun enenq" only fiew of us dared to join, we were breaking our parent's rules.
Our attack was swift and brutal. 7-8 azery kids were playing there, it lasted maybe 3-5 minutes. Broken and bruised azery kids, as their moms and older kids started coming out, we run away.
Later, my kid brother told me that Azery crowd of maybe 20-25 tried to charge and harass Armenian families. Militsia, police, was called and it got quiet.
Later, that night my dad beat me as my mom was yelling "khujan,andastiarag" from the side.
But the last 7-10 days we stayed there, Azeri kids avoided us, left us in charge of neighborhood.
That is a valuable life lesson for me. My parents were the morals for me, but my instincts gave me the victory and self respect.
Maybe this is BS story. But real.


Coming to the news. I read that there is demonstrations going on in Istanbul's Taxim square against government's involvement is Syria following the spread of burning video. People demanding to "bring back" boys from Syria.
If it takes burning their soldiers on their faces to bring humanity into Turks, howcome being burned for generations has not thought us our survival "humanity"?
Bottom line...
No one can or has the right to come and supposedly from "higher morals or other sh it" criticise any other Armenian for expressing joy or whatever reaction to burning a Turk.
No one can put any "humanistic value" as a red line to others. Those values are obsolete behind certain factors and counterproductive.
If someone does not like the clip, don't watch it.
If someone loves it and celebrates it, go ahead and do it.

[DieHard69]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Not so surprising. With todays anti-tank technology, tanks have become walking coffins.

Good point, during the 4 day war we lost 14 of our vehicles.

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Nagorno-Karabakh Defense Army

[Vahram90]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Vahram Jan, the issue is not about right or wrong of doing it, the issue here is the normal reaction of any person to an enemy (in this case Turkish soldier, enemy, because of soldier) being killed, which is a part of a complete being. A national.
For some, it's very hard to see all, because they will not or cannot differentiate and accept particular characters of human being and go with a nation's supposedly accepted or established character for a given scenario or instance.
Worse is when they mix it with ideals like Christianity, democracy or other philosophies, thus putting a straight jacket and distorting our mutual national survival instincts.
What is it, Turks and Muslim extremists have a "privilege" to burn and I have a "privilege" to get burned because I am the first Christian nation with higher morals and they are low human Muslim Turks?
No, we are all the same but driven by our diffrent ideals.
I have been observing the comments and reactions in social media for a long time. And have seen that all nations and all faiths react pretty much the same to everything.
I have seen a European human right buff that goes crazy for gay, women, environmental issues put a comment like "good, need to do this more, so Russians learn their lessons", under picture of dead Russian mother still hugging her dead child after mortar attack, etc, etc...
I lived in Jermuk for 1 mont in 1972, there were lot of azery Turks living that particular section. Every time we, Armenian kids went out to play azery kids would start harassing us. A couple of times they pulled out knives. Every time, Armenian parents would run out and with trembling in fear take their kids in.
Once as we were playing, I saw an azery woman yell at the kids "break their legs" in Turkish. They never pulled their children back, just stood and watched. But my mom and dad would lecture me how I was a better and more "khelatsi" then them. But the worse thing was that our parent's fear sort of got to us too. Despite being more in numbers, were afraid of azeri kids.
That was untill one day a vacationing Leninakantsi family showed up with twin sons and their cousin. After the first day of humiliation, they showed up with broomsticks and asked everybody to join to "ertanq edonts her@ shun enenq" only fiew of us dared to join, we were breaking our parent's rules.
Our attack was swift and brutal. 7-8 azery kids were playing there, it lasted maybe 3-5 minutes. Broken and bruised azery kids, as their moms and older kids started coming out, we run away.
Later, my kid brother told me that Azery crowd of maybe 20-25 tried to charge and harass Armenian families. Militsia, police, was called and it got quiet.
Later, that night my dad beat me as my mom was yelling "khujan,andastiarag" from the side.
But the last 7-10 days we stayed there, Azeri kids avoided us, left us in charge of neighborhood.
That is a valuable life lesson for me. My parents were the morals for me, but my instincts gave me the victory and self respect.
Maybe this is BS story. But real.


Coming to the news. I read that there is demonstrations going on in Istanbul's Taxim square against government's involvement is Syria following the spread of burning video. People demanding to "bring back" boys from Syria.
If it takes burning their soldiers on their faces to bring humanity into Turks, howcome being burned for generations has not thought us our survival "humanity"?
Bottom line...
No one can or has the right to come and supposedly from "higher morals or other sh it" criticise any other Armenian for expressing joy or whatever reaction to burning a Turk.
No one can put any "humanistic value" as a red line to others. Those values are obsolete behind certain factors and counterproductive.
If someone does not like the clip, don't watch it.
If someone loves it and celebrates it, go ahead and do it.

Your story has nothing to do with the concrete issue. You had a problem with the enemy and you gave a good and very noble solution to this problem by yourself. If our ancestors did the same we wouldn't have the problems we have today. But I think you wouldn't be happy if the same azeri kids would be raped by a pedophil. Celebrating barbaric acts of others against your enemy is not the same like beating your enemy in battle. You should celebrate only acts you would do by yourself too. And burning turk captives alive is nothing I want to see done by Armenians. What makes me angry is the logic behind your thinking. It is the reaction of a victim who is celebrating the fact that his killer is beaten by a third party who would ironically kill himself in the same manner.

[Artashes]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The vast multitude of today's terk embrace the conduct of their ancestors. That conduct is rife with premeditated tortures of horrific conduct. There is no doubt in my mind that these two barbecue victims would gleefully torture whoever they could if given the chance or slightest of insults.
To the inhuman is served inhumanity.
That's called justice. --- JUSTICE ---.
You don't want to get punched, don't punch. You don't want to get barbecued, don't barbecue. You don't want others to think of you as heartless scum, don't conduct yourself like heartless scum.
Justice was served, they had it coming.
There is no question we didn't do that, and prior to that there were no calls from our part to do such. That's not who we are or how we are.
Justice was served by one heartless scumbag to another.
How appropriate, how fitting.
As I've already stated, to bad it was only two.
Also, laughably, the terk has been supporting these perps for how many years? I wouldn't be surprised if these jihadi loonies have been to terk safe haven in last two years. I wouldn't doubt if their supplies received in last two years wasn't facilitated by the terk. They chose their friends.
My hope is the kerd and ragheads continue to fight with the terk. Need to pour gasoline on that fire. Lots and lots of gasoline. Maybe get some big fans and fan that blaze.
So the one who revels in inhuman acts has an inhuman act done to them by others who revel in inhuman acts.
Hell, just call it a squabble between two like minded friends.
I call it justice.

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

http://armenpress.am/eng/news/872972/nagorno-karabakh-forces-suppress-intense-azerbaijani-violations-overnight.html

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Your story has nothing to do with the concrete issue. You had a problem with the enemy and you gave a good and very noble solution to this problem by yourself. If our ancestors did the same we wouldn't have the problems we have today. But I think you wouldn't be happy if the same azeri kids would be raped by a pedophil. Celebrating barbaric acts of others against your enemy is not the same like beating your enemy in battle. You should celebrate only acts you would do by yourself too. And burning turk captives alive is nothing I want to see done by Armenians. What makes me angry is the logic behind your thinking. It is the reaction of a victim who is celebrating the fact that his killer is beaten by a third party who would ironically kill himself in the same manner.

Why are you twisting how this discussion has started and grown?
I said multiple times. If I had choice I would shoot Instead of burning anybody.
The issues here are deep psichological in dealing with Turks for effects on Turks.
Untill this burning clip there was no reaction from Turkish public of their army's conduct around. After seing their kids burn they started to protest.
Is it that burning that needs to take place?
Also this discussion has started from a poster posting the link with comments "turkey barbecue" or something like it. And then comes moral police here and starts putting down the guy.
You guys have no fkn rights to give any moral lessons to anybody being happy about the clip.
I find it very two faced and hipocratic to cry about humanity for it without discussing true reality of any human's capabilities and actions in real world.
Then we started going about reality and I will always say that I find no reason then for my own needs in preventing somebody else of burning a Turk soldier.
What other barbarian, what victim? What rape?
I am clearly saying for many posts now---- For survival of my children, family, and country I am always ready to DO ANYTHING and EVERYTHING nececasry to stop the enemy. Period. Go moralise that if it fits in any...
If anybody will protect their children and nation only on certain ways and certain moral grounds or conditions, god be with them.
That is their problem not mine.
If it takes burning of two soldiers to wake up Turkish humanity in Taxim square then good it means it need be. If need more than, let be whatever it needs. Does not matter by whom.
If I will have to burn that ISIS guy to stop him from killing my people or invading, if I have the case and no choice in means of how to stop him by other then even worse acts, I will.
There is no moral obligation in means of destroying an enemy except public image and hipocracy in international moral standards.
Those ISIS are no worse then the "hero" pilots firebombing Tokio, Berlin or London.
At least they burned only two not hundred thousands.

[Vahram90]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Why are you twisting how this discussion has started and grown?
I said multiple times. If I had choice I would shoot Instead of burning anybody.
The issues here are deep psichological in dealing with Turks for effects on Turks.
Untill this burning clip there was no reaction from Turkish public of their army's conduct around. After seing their kids burn they started to protest.
Is it that burning that needs to take place?
Also this discussion has started from a poster posting the link with comments "turkey barbecue" or something like it. And then comes moral police here and starts putting down the guy.
You guys have no fkn rights to give any moral lessons to anybody being happy about the clip.
I find it very two faced and hipocratic to cry about humanity for it without discussing true reality of any human's capabilities and actions in real world.
Then we started going about reality and I will always say that I find no reason then for my own needs in preventing somebody else of burning a Turk soldier.
What other barbarian, what victim? What rape?
I am clearly saying for many posts now---- For survival of my children, family, and country I am always ready to DO ANYTHING and EVERYTHING nececasry to stop the enemy. Period. Go moralise that if it fits in any...
If anybody will protect their children and nation only on certain ways and certain moral grounds or conditions, god be with them.
That is their problem not mine.
If it takes burning of two soldiers to wake up Turkish humanity in Taxim square then good it means it need be. If need more than, let be whatever it needs. Does not matter by whom.
If I will have to burn that ISIS guy to stop him from killing my people or invading, if I have the case and no choice in means of how to stop him by other then even worse acts, I will.
There is no moral obligation in means of destroying an enemy except public image and hipocracy in international moral standards.
Those ISIS are no worse then the "hero" pilots firebombing Tokio, Berlin or London.
At least they burned only two not hundred thousands.

We all would do everything necessary to defend our land but the question was if its correct to be happy about IS killing turkish captives. I'm not moral police but I can say what I think and feel. And yes, for me the reaction of the guys here who are enjoying the video is a proof for victim mentality and the illusion that the reason for our problems is the turk and if one of them is killed we have one problem less. This logic is not only wrong but dangerous. If we want to find solutions for our problems we need to understand their true reason.
By the way, burning captives alive can never be necessary even in a total war and even if your enemy does such things. During the Artsakh war the Azeris treated our guys very bad. But we didn't and in 1993/4 we gave Azeri captives even the possibility to leave Armenia for Russia. That resulted in mass desertion in Azeri army.