Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[burjuin]

US Congressman David Valadao visits Artsakh
17:24, 18.09.2017


Congressional Armenian Caucus Co-Chairman David Valadao (R-CA) visited Artsakh (Nagorno Karabakh) today, where, alongside government officials and ANCA Chairman Raffi Hamparian, he reviewed life-saving HALO Trust de-mining programs that he has helped fund as a leading member of the House Appropriations Committee, reported the Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA).

“It is great to be here on the ground, in Artsakh, with Representative Valadao, author of the ANCA-backed U.S. House amendment funding the Artsakh aid program,” said ANCA Chairman Raffi Hamparian. “Witnessing firsthand America's life-saving, peace-making contribution to the future of the Republic of Artsakh is, for sure, a proud moment for all Armenian Americans.”

The trip comes just two weeks after Rep. Valadao introduced an amendment, adopted by the U.S. House of Representatives, calling for continued U.S. assistance for the HALO Trust’s de-mining efforts across the interior farmlands and villages of the Artsakh Republic.

During his meeting with the HALO Trust's Regional Director Ash Boddy and local leaders, portions of which were broadcast live on their Facebook page, Rep. Valadao saw first-hand the lifesaving efforts of the organization, which, over the last 16 years, has destroyed over 8,733 anti-personnel mines, 2,584 anti-tank landmines, 180,858 small arms ammunition, 12,423 cluster bombs and 48,572 other explosive items in Artsakh. The HALO Trust looks to complete Artsakh de-mining efforts by 2020.

The visit comes a day ahead of a Congressional delegation trip to the Republic of Armenia, marking the September 21st anniversary of independence and exploring expanded bilateral economic and political cooperation. In addition to Rep. Valadao, the delegation includes fellow Congressional Armenian Caucus Co-Chairs Jackie Speier (D-CA) and Frank Pallone (D-NJ), Representatives Anna Eshoo (D-CA), Tulsi Gabbard (D-HI) and James Sensenbrenner (R-WI).

https://news.am/eng/news/410562.html

[Federate]

Czech and Israel are not callling themselfs as our allies and strategic partners. They don't have mutual defence pact with us and are not in the same economic block.
Czeck are in EU, right? They don't sell arms to their EU partner's enemies do they? That is the big and a world of difference. If we and especially Russians can't see it or distinguish it, then our alliance with Russians is zero, just self illusion.
If Russia would really behave like an ally to her partners and not as a money and political wh or e, then let Azerbaijan buy even from US, or given free weapons by Israel, Russia had to balance it in protection to her strategic partner, Armenia. Not to arm Azerbaijan to 10:1 ratio to us.
We and Azerbaijan are not on the same level on official partnership with Russia remember. We are partners and allies, azeris are only partners.

^ Case in point

Then I guess Russia should abandon our alliance and just sell to Azerbaijan, like Israel does. Then it would be completely OK for you because at least they aren't our allies anymore, this is what you sound like. You need to lobby Russia for better deals which is what our authorities thankfully do. Russia supplies 95% of our arms and balances as much as possible, which is why we have stellar defense systems + ballistic missiles. We can't afford any of these things. Azerbaijan wouldn't be able to afford these things too if they didn't have oil.

let Azerbaijan buy even from US, or given free weapons by Israel

P.S. Actually EU countries or US or South Korea who produce 70% of worlds arms show more restrains selling to Azerbaijan then our strategic ally Russia.

It's funny how you see that Azerbaijan has alternatives to Russia yet can't understand at the same time why Russia sells to Azerbaijan. And no, EU countries & South Korea don't have restraint, Russian arms are simply easier for Azerbaijan to acquire because they're more cost effective and they're used to using Russian systems. Georgia broke away from Russia and still buys Russian weapons via Ukraine. Personally, I'm thankful Armenia will be facing Azeri T-90 instead of Merkava tanks. At least we know everything about the former and will be readily able to use them when we capture them.

If you ever get over the "Russia is our ally, they shouldn't sell to Azerbaijan" phase, I recommend this old post where I tried to break down how Azerbaijan can literally buy an Israeli alternative to everything that Russia sells it, except for drones http://forum.hyeclub.com/forum/armen...647#post499647

[Hakob]

Federate, you should not conclude that Russia will abandon us just because we demand they stop selling modern weapons to Azerbaijan and stop stocking azeri aggression.
Russia will not go away unless we behave like Georgians or Ukrainians (enemies) because then Russia will loose all of the Caucasus.
And what do you understand with words lobbying? Kissing Russian booths? Or demanding that Russia behave according to signed contracts, be responsive to our national interests and like a real ally that they claim to be?
Where have you seen any country not only now but in history that makes money off of its allie's enemy?
That missanderstanding about "Amman do not anger Moscow" has reached to such levels that Moscow now demands that we make Russian an official language.
This demagogi and weakness has to stop.
The level of partnership has to be between equals, as climed.
This word of lobbying is a misplaced word in this relationship because lobbying applies only to when affecting an equitable relationship, not a one that one only understands you as a subservient and weak subject to be kicked around when needed.
Do not worry about Russia and Armenia breaking off. That times have passed. Maidan and western mirage has emptied itself.
But now is time to raise our heads and demand account. Internally and externally. And if necessary to rock the boat to waken up the respect and necessary reaction for our people.
I will bet my life that Russia will stay, lower her tone and supply what we need and whom we need.
I also believe that as history shows, Russia only understands the language of danger and threats.
We have to behave independent and active, that does not mean to jump to western arms, they are not waiting for us with open arms too, but we cannot sit and say it's raining when they keep spitting on us. That does not bring respect.
I see that the fear in us is so high that we just about forget of what it is from.

[londontsi]

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[Azad]

^^^ @ 1:46 they are practicing retreat

[Hakob]

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There was F16s landing in this clip with other Turkish transport. So Azeri hasanov declared that once again Azerbaijan and turkey are one nation with two states. A NATO country is doing military exercises in CSTO country.
Aren't azeris afraid that Moscow may get angry and flood Armenia with all the weapons?
Is all the Azeri balls just the oil money? Or we are taking it as an excuse in letting ourselfs roll under other's booths?
It l is a factor, I don't deny, but aren't we letting it to be factoring too much?
So, azeris let the world know, Turks are their brothers. Arms business is just a business, like Moscow says, but that can also bite Moscow's own as s. Once we are gone, with the help of Russian arms, Turks can burn Chechnya and other north Caucasian soil out of Russian feet.
So? Moscow has bet (safely in their mind) that we will quietly back down from Artsakh and give Russia best shot at baku's promises of being with Russian sphere.
Illusions.
We, on the other hand sit quiet, in fear from this "giant" game and hope for the best? The only thing we know is we will go and die in Artsakh (maybe) when war starts.
Last Aprill war showed that Moscow does not controll Azeri military initiative. Soon Turkey may join in that initiative.
what do you call 3-4 joint military exercises in one year? Preparations for war, right?
Why doesn't Russia react angrily as it does for same NATO exercises elsewhere?
Turkey is a friend? Russia's friend and we should sit quiet?
instead, we are so afraid to send 3 medics to Georgia for exercises that we just about xxxx in our pants. "Russia will get angry and help our enemies". What angry? Russia has been behaving as if we sold Crimea to Tatars for the past 5-7 years anyway.
It looks a very safe bet for Russians, we will take anything up our b utt.

[Azad]

Hakob, instead of complaining of the Russian equation, what is the alternative? We join conditionally EU in 2070 and have the country flooded by retards? Join NATO (like Georgia) by returning all of Artsakh? We will live peacefully with turks on both sides? Even if we hand them over all of Artsakh, have "peace", in 50 years they will crawl all over present Armenia from every side as happy neighbors and multiply like all other backwards people in the region. You never propose an alternative that will guarantee our long term sovereignty. You only complain of Russia ... We got it by now! Talking of Georgia and their NATO equation, did they get back Abkhazia and South Ossetia? No! They just exercise with empty promises, while the west protects their oil routes through Georgia.

[Hakob]

Hakob, instead of complaining of the Russian equation, what is the alternative? We join conditionally EU in 2070 and have the country flooded by retards? Join NATO (like Georgia) by returning all of Artsakh? We will live peacefully with turks on both sides? Even if we hand them over all of Artsakh, have "peace", in 50 years they will crawl all over present Armenia from every side as happy neighbors and multiply like all other backwards people in the region. You never propose an alternative that will guarantee our long term sovereignty. You only complain of Russia ... We got it by now! Talking of Georgia and their NATO equation, did they get back Abkhazia and South Ossetia? No! They just exercise with empty promises, while the west protects their oil routes through Georgia.

So you don't get what alternative you have?
Dont see that the word alternative is wrong by itself?
starting from inside Armenia, fight for the end of oligarkhs and corruption. Russia has nothing to do with this. Talk and educate people about damage of selling their votes, demand openness and accountability for budget at every level, demand change, don't let the burocrats sleep easy on their chairs.
For Russia, demand and act to the fullest extent of suvereinity that is necessary for nation building. Do not flip over every time Russia wants it. Demand and act from solely our interests, not Moscow's. For example, when Putin condemns for US supplying Ukraine arms which is against the conventions, demand the same approach in the Caucasus. Not only Russia should stop pouring in the arms but also condemn Turkish and Israeli involvement and military exercises and work on blocking them. Get the balls to declare and act for every time azeris break the ceasefire, we act like Israel and do whatever necessary to secure our borders, even taking more territories. Even Israel several times a year breaks the wishes of US and does whatever it needs. Like Aprill war, if next time azeris fail and fall into usual dissaray after initial charge, we do not stop because Moscow says, but we stop when we need to.
Our government wants work with complementary policies with west and other entities - do not stop it because Moscow orders it.
Start and repeat with words and actions towards Moscow that we are allies, right, but we will only act because of our interests every time. Because based on our situation we got the balls to do so. Repeat and act like it until Moscow takes it into account seriously every time. Example, our president goes to china, right away Russian media spreads that Armenians want to find new partners and replace Moscow, that they are not reliable, they will be wiped out etc. etc. And we should not shrivel from this Russian hysteria (that hysteria is because Russians know what will happen if they loose Armenia and go into it every time we show some independence), but we act and make Moscow know that they can say whatever they want but in order to keep Armenia as an ally, they have to act as one.
Work on either forcing Russia fulfill its promises of investments in our rail sistem, energy sistem or do everything to get them back.
Start negotiations on opening rail connection thru Georgia to russia. Get into agreement with Georgia ( we can use US influence on them) then pin Russia into opening Abkhazian section, which as an ally Russia should not have difficulty to do so (but in actuality behaves diffrently).
Pressure and get to point that our government does not rely on Moscow for any kind of support, approval or influence as power broker for any government in Yerevan. Or Moscow does not expect so that every government governs only by its approval.
Get Moscow treat us and our citizens with rights guaranteed by papers signed.
Demand that Moscow stop pressures of Russification of Armenia. They have to anderstand that there can be only one official language in Armenia. Armenian.
Etc, etc, etc.
Does anybody think that Russians will pack up and leave for all this? We are not asking them so. Hardly anybody in history has dismantled a military base for this kind of behavior. Russia will not too.
Still the base #102 will be a blessing for Moscow's geopolitical standing.
its a long way but the only way for us on being sovereign as much as the world understands.
This is not against Russia. We had to behave like this no matter who our ally is.
Armenia is not Russia or Russian governorate, period.

P.S. Actually, Armenia could be a more valued ally for Russia if it had bigger balls.
Another, about railways, In actuality Georgia has not cut line with us. Our trains go to every place in Georgia that lines go. It is Russian Abkhazia that has severed the traffic. Abkhazia or Russia may I ask? It seems that if Russia, our ally, really wanted, the trains would be rolling. So, does Russia have anything to do with our blockade?

[Vrej1915]

[burjuin]

Armenian Air Defense