Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

NKR Defense Minister - “Armed forces not preparing for any concessions”
[ 29 December 2008 | 15:54 ] Karabakh |

Today NKR Minister of Defense Movses Hakobyan stated, during an end of year press conference wrap-up, that the country’s armed forces were able to meet all the primary challenges it set out to fulfill, namely the safety and security of the nation’s borders and population.

During his response to questions pertaining the Madrid Principles and the possible return of various territories, the Defense Minister declared that an end must be put to such rumors once and for all. “There is a actual state of affairs exisiting today. The armed forces of the NKR aren’t preparing to execute any so-called concessions. On the contrary, during the past year the territories in our possession have grown by some several thousand hectares.” He went on to say that concessions can only be implemented after decisions are reached by the political authorities and that they are not planning for any such move.

From http://today.hetq.am/en/karabakh/movses/

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Excellent news! This one will strike at the "azeri" morale very well.
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Azeri POW ‘Staying In Armenia’


Azeri Soldier In Armenia - Interview

Monkey-see, monkey-do?
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Group of Nakhchivan residents attempts to trespass Armenian border
30 December 2008 [15:37] - Today.Az


On December 27 a group of parents in Nakhchivan, claiming that their sons were beaten in the police department, have directed to the Armenian border to trespass it, reports Day.Az with reference to Azadlyg radio station.

As is noted, seven young people at the age of 18-23, charged with switching off lights on one of the New Year trees in Nakhchivan were detained in the evening on December 26. They were beaten and shaved in the police and they were prohibited to go out after 18:00.

As a sign of protest against this parents of these sons announced that they are going to leave the country.

One of the parents told Azadlyg radio station that their children were beaten in the police station due to switching off the lights on one of the New Year trees.

"Our sons were beaten till morning, they were shaved and held in the police station for a night. How can we live like that? Now we want to go to another country. We want to live in Armenia. We have raised our children with a great difficulty", said one of the parents.

The Nakhchivan police explained their actions by saying they wanted to intimidate the young men and said that this issue was settled after a talk with the parents.

/Day.Az/

URL: http://www.today.az/news/society/49913.html

[crusader1492]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Monkey-see, monkey-do?
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Group of Nakhchivan residents attempts to trespass Armenian border
30 December 2008 [15:37] - Today.Az


On December 27 a group of parents in Nakhchivan, claiming that their sons were beaten in the police department, have directed to the Armenian border to trespass it, reports Day.Az with reference to Azadlyg radio station.

As is noted, seven young people at the age of 18-23, charged with switching off lights on one of the New Year trees in Nakhchivan were detained in the evening on December 26. They were beaten and shaved in the police and they were prohibited to go out after 18:00.

As a sign of protest against this parents of these sons announced that they are going to leave the country.

One of the parents told Azadlyg radio station that their children were beaten in the police station due to switching off the lights on one of the New Year trees.

"Our sons were beaten till morning, they were shaved and held in the police station for a night. How can we live like that? Now we want to go to another country. We want to live in Armenia. We have raised our children with a great difficulty", said one of the parents.

The Nakhchivan police explained their actions by saying they wanted to intimidate the young men and said that this issue was settled after a talk with the parents.

/Day.Az/

URL: http://www.today.az/news/society/49913.html

I'm surprised an Azeri media outlet would post news that is negative toward Azerbaijan and positive toward Armenia.

Anyway, even if these people are unable to gain Armenian citizenship now, all they will have to do is wait a little while longer as Nakhichevan will be within Armenia's political borders soon

[SoyElTurco]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Anyway, even if these people are unable to gain Armenian citizenship now, all they will have to do is wait a little while longer as Nakhichevan will be within Armenia's political borders soon

that would be a perfect opportunity for azerbaijan to capitalize on karabakh. diluting karabakhs defenses' and having to keep naxchivan occupied will make it easier for my azeri brothers. go ahead.

[TomServo]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

As if Azerbaijan hasn't been capitalizing on Karabakh?

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I'm surprised an Azeri media outlet would post news that is negative toward Azerbaijan and positive toward Armenia.

Anyway, even if these people are unable to gain Armenian citizenship now, all they will have to do is wait a little while longer as Nakhichevan will be within Armenia's political borders soon

Armenian media has picked up on the story, it even has a picture I hope they make their way into Armenia.

Plusieurs familles azéries du Nakhichevan annoncent qu’elles veulent se rendre en Arménie

vendredi2 janvier 2009, par Stéphane/armenews


Le 27 décembre plusieurs familles azéries résidantes dans le Nakhchivan, prétendant que leurs fils ont été battus par la police, ont annoncé leur intention de traverser la frontičre arménienne annonce la presse de Bakou.

Sept jeunes gens âgés de 18 ŕ 23 ans, chargés de brancher les lumičres sur l’un des Arbres du Nouvel An au Nakhchivan ont été retenus dans la soirée du 26 décembre par la police. Ils ont été battus et rasés et se sont vus interdire de sortir aprčs 18h.

En protestation les parents de ces jeunes ont annoncé qu’ils allaient quitter le pays.

"Nos fils ont été battus jusqu’au matin, ils ont été rasés et détenus dans un commissariat de police pendant une nuit. Comment pouvons-nous vivre comme ça ? Maintenant nous voulons aller dans un autre pays. Nous voulons vivre en Arménie. Nous avons récupéré nos enfants avec de grandes difficultés" a dit l’un des parents.

La police Nakhchivan a expliqué leurs actions en disant qu’elle a voulu intimider les jeunes et a affirmé que cette question a trouvé un arrangement aprčs une conversation avec les parents.

http://www.armenews.com/article.php3?id_article=47926

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I don't understand anything.. In English please.

Here is the English version http://forum.hyeclub.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=432

[Pazooki]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Here is the English version http://forum.hyeclub.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=432

Thanks but that was one awkward story.

So the parents of the kids who got beaten want to go to Armenia? For what?

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

We need to be careful about letting these Azeris in for "asylum". Turks always have a second agenda (much like jews). I wouldn't want to see an azerified Armenia...

And if we do get back Nakhichevan we should expel every azeri turk back to turkey where they belong.

Bravo Yerazhishd jan, I was thinking the very same thing and you beat me to it. We surely don't want any of these baboons in our domain. They would come and have each 10 to 12 children per couple, infesting our country then they'll claim it that it's theirs because they would be majority and they'll say that we're minority. We cannot chance those dirty infested insects in any part near our country. Send them back to Mongolia where they initially came from.

Let me explain why the soldier and the Nakhichevanites who want asylum should be given their wish. Firstly, both of these are only a handful of people who will be ID-ed since the news will be covering this. This eliminates any threat of espionage already. For their "azeriness" to survive, they need a big community and faced with the sea of Armenians where everything is done in Armenian, they will assimilate in no time. Who will they speak their gibberish with except themselves? Soon their kids will learn Armenian and as a small bonus, we get population. So to conclude, the threat is almost non-existent.

But the political leverage is what interests me. First, the obvious. It shows that despite all the enmity between the two, Armenia is clearly the better place that even the enemy wants to live in. By exploiting these cases and exposing it more and more to the public, it will be a great propaganda victory over the fake republic and drop their morale. Did you guys watch the Rafiq Hasanov (the asylum seeking soldier) interview? Look at what he says, it's brilliant. If your Eastern Armenian is not too good, there is a rough English translation video here

Of course, everything needs to be done in limited and controlled fashion.
~~~

As for Nakhichevan, here's what Jirair Sefilian thinks or thought about it (don't kill me Armenian ) in a one year old but interesting interview. While I find the article interesting given it's rare we discuss Nakhichevan, I don't like his plan to leave the entire population there. However, besides war I don't see another option if we want our Nakhichevan back. Currently there are ZERO Armenians there.
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AZG Armenian Daily #172, 21/09/2007

"THE NEXT MUST BE NAKHIJEVAN"
An exclusive interview with Jirair Sefilian

- "Jarangutyun" party recently put into circulation the draft law of recognition of Nagorno Karabakh independence. What can you say on this occasion?

- If the issue is settled only with the recognition of NKR independence, I am against it. I will agree with it, if it has a logical continuation, mainly, if after it NKR unites the Republic of Armenia turning into two or more provinces of it. Besides, parallel with this we must correct our mistake of 1988 and lay claim to joining Nakhijevan to Armenia. If it is not logical continuation of the proposal of "Jarangutyun", then I am against it. Without the mentioned steps it seems that NKR becomes independent not from Azerbaijan, but Armenia, and it will do a big harm to our national unity. Before that proposal, the authorities of NKR took seriously the "fact" of being independent. By the way, it is one of the main reasons of contradictions between the citizens of Armenia and Karabakh, when Armenians being citizens of different states forget that Artsakh is part of Armenia. The creators of NKR at that time thought that they would have chances to maneuver in international political sphere. In reality, we lie to ourselves, while the so-called international society continues to regard it as an Armenian-Azerbaijani issue and does not see Artsakh as a separate side of the conflict. We must stop this clownery and organize a new referendum to unite NKR with Armenia.

- Nevertheless, according to recent Gall polls 2/3 of the questioned are for the independence of NKR.

- I don’t think that Gall polls show the real picture. The Gall polls are not for the clarification of the people’s approaches, but for the compulsion of other viewpoints. The results of that Gall poll are not only incorrect, but also very dangerous because of the advocating effect.

- Do you think that it’s the correct time to speak of not only the joining of NKR and Armenia, but also to raise the issue of Nakhijevan parallel?

- Until today, it’s not understandable for me why the Karabakh movement didn’t demand for joining Nakhijevan. Didn’t the members of Karabakh committee know that Nakhijevan was banished at the same time with Artsakh? Didn’t they know that if Garegin Njdeh did not organize the resistance of Syunik, it would also have the same fate? I have heard many explanations, which remind me justifications. But now the most important thing is not to know the real reasons of it, and not to blame the political figures of that time, but to correct the mistake, and it’s the real time and even late. The issue of Artsakh we may consider as settled by 80 percent. Nevertheless, we must not forget of the rest 20 percent: the regions of Shahumian and Getashen. We must also start the process of Nakhijevan today, though we are pretty late to start it. The moment was served two years ago by the scream of Nor Jugha’s crossstones. The Azerbaijani army’s leaders of Nakhijevan must answer for that barbaric crime. Nakhijevan must become the main issue of RA foreign policy. Diaspora must also buckle down to it, having it in the foreground instead of the recognition of the Armenian genocide.

- But Armenians were majority in Artsakh, while the Azerbaijani live in Nakhijevan.

- We are not going to force the population of Nakhijevan, Tatars by origin, to leave their homes. They must understand that they are new comers. I am sure that the population living there is very dissatisfied with its barrack-like form of life. Armenians are ready to live in peace with them, not to be rancorous. Armenia must recommend their security and provide educational, cultural and economic freedom, and roads, but the Armenian authorities must rule the region. The necessity of joining Nakhijevan to Armenia is not conditioned only with the rehabilitation of historical justice. It has also geopolitical and economic importance for nowadays Armenia’s strategy. The Azerbaijani army must leave that region, but the Armenian armed forces will not allocate there, as Nakhijevan will become an anti-military region creating the best conditions for the free market between Armenia and Iran.

- Don’t you think that it will bring to a new war, a new instability and economic collapse?

- The means of pretension must be legal, diplomatic, public, scientific-cultural, etc. All those means must serve the only goal – manifestation of the national will to re-possess Nakhijevan. The authorities of the provinces of Syunik, Vayots Dzor and Ararat must have contact in connection with it. It doesn’t mean that we rouse a war. If our enemy wants a war and is ready for it, it will not ask our opinion. It’s a well-known truth that only the week are attacked. Iran may be a good means to settle the issue and not to re-start the war, as it is a highly respected country for both sides.

- What about the economy, I am sure that the main reason that impedes the progress of the Armenian economy is the present infirm regime of Armenia, and not the Karabakh conflict.

- The transport network, which has a big role in the economy, is insufficiently developed in Armenia. With the help of Nakhijevan we could recover the railway communication with Syunik and Artsakh, and also make a railway connection with Iran, which has a strategic importance for Armenia. The gas and oil pipelines could easily go to North within the territory of Nakhijevan. It would be also possible to create an oil refining industry. Being the continuation of the Ararat valley and a significant granary of wheat, Nakhijevan could transfer Armenia from an importer of wheat to an exporter of it, and to multiply the export of other agronomical cultures. A new opportunity would be given to build a hydroelectric power station on Arax River. The benefits are evident also in the sphere of defense: instead of 150 km we would protect only 8 km border after the join of Nakhijevan. With this, we would make more invulnerable "the Armenian wedge" and will protect and develop the Northern-Southern strategy of our country.

- Do you think that it is realistic to carry out this program?

- Unfortunately, it’s not possible to carry out national programs of strategic importance under the present-day regime. Nevertheless, I think that it’s time to speak and discuss these kind of programs, in order to realize it without delay under the future national government.

Translated by L. H.

http://azg.am/?lang=EN&num=2007092106 (link might not work)

[Anoush]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Its not an "ace" -- they are not applying it that way. It is a cultural thing.

Yes it's called civilized people (us Armenians) versus uncivilized people (the azeris or the turks).

From my understanding in Artsax about three months ago they had a vast wedding ceremony of more than I believe a hundred fifty weddings in one day and the Artsaxian government gave incentives to each couple to pay a good amount of money for each extra child then much more for the couple who besets more than three children. They started thinking already on the basis of what the azeris and their so called culture have been doing so far, to what jgk3 was suggesting above.

So we'll wait and see; let's hope for the best and see that each of them have at least 4 to 5 children.