Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[HyeFighter2]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

what is it i found it in official NKR army web-site

[HyeFighter2]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

the ones here who are complaining about Russia are really arrogant, foolish and ungrateful , without Russia, Armenia is nothing. Now let's get back to topic!

your the one of theme who kisses russian as/s , its enought! russia is only cover for armenia, we have enought weapons to defend our country!

[AstalaVist]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

your the one of theme who kisses russian as/s , its enought! russia is only cover for armenia, we have enought weapons to defend our country!

And from where you got these weapons?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I'm afraid, I have seen more war than you will ever see in your life, at least I hope so for our nation.
There is no village or valley from Omar to Horatiz, and Mintchevan I have not set foot on.
I think I have a very good idea, wich type and quality of armament appeared, on wich side, and thanks to whom, at its precise date.
I know equally, how, and thanks to wich kind of patriotism our unknown heroes managed to provide arms, from all over ex-USSR, and at wich price/sacrifice they were acquired.
I remember pretty well the first AK47, the first Grad, the first T55/72, the first Su-25/Mig21/Mig 25, Mi24, the first ...., and on wich side they appeared.
I remember to well 12 Jun 1992...
I do know what life was in the black, frozing and unsecure badvals of Stepanakert's law quality soviet buildings, under cluster bombs dropped by russian and ukrainian pilots... and I do remember the ghosty streets of Yerevan, with people burning their soviet encyclopedias...
Thank you for your arrogant ignorance.

Concerning Ciller's threat/Shaposhnikov's WWIII , I'm afraid you need more information on that particular episode. And you need to look a little more than Wikipedia, Tom de Wall and Tomy Goltz's versions.

Unfortunately for us, (and for virtually all of Russia's allies during last 3 centuries), Russia's unreliability is so redondant, from V.Piotr to Medvedev, that this is not even a matter of debate.
Just learn history.

Without going too far away, just explain the bigottery of Medvedev, the Gasman, corrupted to the bones, wishing to offer Artsakh, on a silver plate, for the sake of a flirt with the turks, he knew by advance, had no futur....
An ally of the sort, is the best someone can wish to its worst enemy.

Nevertheless, this is our strategic Ally, called Russia, and we have to cope with it.
And it is not by a mix of childish propaganda/blind love and wishful thinking that you will avoid the repetition of the bad surprises of history.

Awesome post, but, unfortunately, knowledge and experience counts for nothing on a internet forum (and especially not on an Armenian one!). Here, the spotty-faced kid just out of short trousers thinks himself more than equal to those with with a lifetime's experience and knowledge.

If you try and inform them properly of past events, they just cherry-pick those facts that suit their existing viewpoints and they ignore everything else. Knowing the truth of the past, and the reality of the present, allows for future bad events to be understood and confronted with eyes that are wide open, and not half-blinded with propaganda and wishful thinking.

[Haykakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Keeping your eyes open is exactly what needs to be done so long as those eyes are seeing the facts on the ground. You know Vrej those weapons you speak of iknow where they came from to. My dad held fundrasers and brought the money personaly to Kharabagh numerous times and paid for the tanks and other weapons personaly. He was fired upon and shelled and brought home the shretnells as a souvenier. The money came from wealthy and not so wealthy donors in this area and was spent not on just weapons but medical supplies to. Care to guess who they bought the russian weapons from? You guessed it-Russians. Sure it matters that we have people who care and do things for our country and i resent jerks like you telling me i am irrelevent caus i was not there when i was doing what could be done to help. So yeh i know perhaps better then you exectly where the funds came from for the weapons we used. As for who provided the weapons well it surely wasnt the USA nor any other western country nor iran - they were russian weapons bought from various dealers and russian army members themselves. Without russia you wouldnt have the weapons to fight because the alternatives to russian weapons were too expencive to buy in great enough numbers to arm us. People take some things for granted then xxxxx about them not being there anymore when they are gone. If the russians leave armenia and the turcks show us how self sufficient and independent armenia realy is without russia then whose skirt are you gona be crying under? We should do everything in our power to help our nation but the reality is that we are sitting ducks without Russia. Do not confuse the cowardly inept azeris with the real threat facing us to our west because that is a totally different animal which can only be repelled by a certain bear to our north.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Keeping your eyes open is exactly what needs to be done so long as those eyes are seeing the facts on the ground. You know Vrej those weapons you speak of iknow where they came from to. My dad held fundrasers and brought the money personaly to Kharabagh numerous times and paid for the tanks and other weapons personaly. He was fired upon and shelled and brought home the shretnells as a souvenier. The money came from wealthy and not so wealthy donors in this area and was spent not on just weapons but medical supplies to. Care to guess who they bought the russian weapons from? You guessed it-Russians. Sure it matters that we have people who care and do things for our country and i resent jerks like you telling me i am irrelevent caus i was not there when i was doing what could be done to help. So yeh i know perhaps better then you exectly where the funds came from for the weapons we used. As for who provided the weapons well it surely wasnt the USA nor any other western country nor iran - they were russian weapons bought from various dealers and russian army members themselves. Without russia you wouldnt have the weapons to fight because the alternatives to russian weapons were too expencive to buy in great enough numbers to arm us. People take some things for granted then xxxxx about them not being there anymore when they are gone. If the russians leave armenia and the turcks show us how self sufficient and independent armenia realy is without russia then whose skirt are you gona be crying under? We should do everything in our power to help our nation but the reality is that we are sitting ducks without Russia. Do not confuse the cowardly inept azeris with the real threat facing us to our west because that is a totally different animal which can only be repelled by a certain bear to our north.

One of those dealers that helped Armenia acquire weapons was Sarkis Soghanalian (recently died), arguably the most famous arms dealer of all-time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarkis_Soghanalian

Quote from Soghanalian - "I helped a lot of countries keep their independence. ... I never lost a war. I helped Lebanon. They at least kept their republic. I squeezed Khomeini and helped my country’s cause. There are other countries whose names I don’t want to mention. I helped my country Armenia when they needed me. That’s all I can say. ..."

[Serjik]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Something that the young and old and the inexperience and the experience need to realize is that there is a difference between the Soviet Union and the Russian Federation like the difference between the Russian empire of and the Bolsheviks that overthrew it. In the big picture Russia and Armenian nationalists is the reason why we have an Armenia today. some of you guys are right that we should take advantage of the friendship Moscow is give us to become more powerful because one day Russia may not need us.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

AZERI-BUILT DEFENSIVE WALL TO LABEL ARMENIANS AS AGGRESSORS - EXPERT

Tert.am
12:12 ~U 15.10.11

The Azerbaijanis are building a defensive wall across the Contact
Line with Nagorno-Karabakh in order to label Armenians as aggressors,
political analyst Hrant Melik-Shahnazaryan has said.

"[The construction of] that wall has only one purpose ~V to
characterize Armenia as a country that shoots at civilians and hence
is an aggressor," the expert told a news conference.

In an interview with the Armenian TV channel Shant, Aram Abrahamyan,
the editor-in-chief of Aravot newspaper, characterized the
Azerbaijanis' efforts as a sheer propaganda, expressing strong doubts
that it could solve any problem in terms of removing the snipers from
the Contact Line.

He said that the Minsk Group co-chairs' proposal on stationing the
snipers a short distance from the border would be a more effective
method.

"The Armenian side has accepted the proposal, but the Azerbaijani
Defense Ministry has said it will not solve the problem and
demanded that the Armenians leave their lands," he said, adding that
Azerbaijan is interested in maintaining the tension on the Line.

Abrahamyan considered the construction of the wall "neither good
nor bad".

"It just makes no sense," he said, referring to Israel's attempts to
build walls on the border with Egypt, without solving any security
problem.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

BRITISH PHOTOGRAPHER: ARMENIAN SOLDIERS ARE BEING FORCIBLY HELD TO RANSOM IN AZERBAIJAN

Panorama, Armenia
Oct 14 2011

"Over the last 17 years more than 150,000 people of
the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic have slowly re-built
the infrastructure of their major cities, and returned
to some semblance of normality in their daily lives,"
says the UK freelance photographer Russell Pollard in his
blog publication "The Missing Soldiers of Nagorno-Karabakh war" at

http://russellpollard.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/the-missing-soldiers-of-the-nagorno-karabakh-war/

.

The Grigoryan family of Stepanakert, says Pollard, just like many
fellow citizens, suffered the constant bombing and sniping from the
Azeri troops. All around them was being destroyed: buildings, lives;
neighbours were receiving sad news from the military of the loss of
their relatives; bodies of killed men were being re-patriated home
and funerals were taking place.

In 1994 the son of the Grigoryan family - Felix, a 23-year-old young
man, was an accomplished musician with great prospects. His parents
were looking forward to their old age, knowing that their son would be
there to look after them. Felix was part of a 7 man unit carrying out
an operation near Fizuli when, one day, he disappeared without trace.

"The investigation was not able to confirm whether he had been
killed, or captured; there was no evidence, only the fact that he
never returned home," notes the British photographer.

Whilst their neighbours have re-built their lives, the life
of Grigoryan family remains, forever empty, but hopeful. They are
grasping at any opportunity that would return their son back home. "On
one occasion they received a mysterious call from a man who announced
that he would visit them shortly, and that he would be known to them -
cruelly the whole episode turned out to be a mistake", writes Russell
Pollard. Family's dreams are regularly punctuated by scenarios where
their son, but only the monochrome picture of their handsome son,
is always present for his proud parents to remember his, and their,
sacrifice. Only there isn't a place to visit, or to lay flowers.

The photographer Pollard says, the story of the Grigoryan family in
Artsakh is only one of over 700 similar stories, and it is quite
likely that a proportion of these men will be dead, however more
sinister possibilities are a reality. "Evidence exists ( I have seen
the original of one letter) that people are being held in Azerbaijan,
against their will, and that ransoms are being requested for their
release," writes the author, noting that there are also views that the
Armenians, captured in Azerbaijan, have had to integrate within Azeri
life in order to save themselves, and, now feel too ashamed to return.

And the lack of correct identity papers makes it impossible to obtain
a passport, or finance, thus neutralising the key ingredients for a
return to Armenia.

The trafficking and exchanging of soldiers during and after the war,
was a reality. The good work of Albert Voskanyan who the British
photographer met in Stepanakert secured the release of 500 men and
150 bodies. "Whilst the Grigoryan's continue to wait, hope and pray
for their son's return, another 700 families are suffering the same
torment and the "needle" of quality information in the "haystack"
of confusion gets more difficult to find as each year passes," writes
Russell Pollard at the end.

The ceasefire declared in the Nagorno-Karabagh war in 1994 provided
a much needed respite to the bloodshed that lasted in the region for
6 years. The politicians have continued to talk since then to bring
this conflict to a final resolution, however, a final peace agreement
is not substantially closer, says Pollard.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Something that the young and old and the inexperience and the experience need to realize is that there is a difference between the Soviet Union and the Russian Federation like the difference between the Russian empire of and the Bolsheviks that overthrew it. In the big picture Russia and Armenian nationalists is the reason why we have an Armenia today. some of you guys are right that we should take advantage of the friendship Moscow is give us to become more powerful because one day Russia may not need us.

Actually, the Russian Federation (Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic) considered that it WAS the Soviet Union, and the post-Soviet Russian Federation is all but identical to the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, including having its territorial / military / political ambitions. Russia didn't want an indpendent Armenia to emerge - never in Russia's history has it supported an independent Armenia. However, faced with the reality of that independence, Russia still desires Armenia to be within its influence, and is willing to pay to get it. Armenia just has watch it doesn't give away too much to get too little.

But you are right to remind us that today is not 20 years ago, or 40 years ago, or 80, or 100. And 20 years from now things probably won't be the same as today.