Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Sorry about my maths should have said 14 years.
As a Cypriot Armenian and having lived through those sad times raises emotions.

Come to think of it time is immaterial, history has no end, reasons never stop being what they are.

[jgk3]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

yes, it is a worthy comparison londontsi, that is why we must be serious about defending NK no matter what... Whenever Armenians chose not to defend a given Armenian territory just because they felt no attachment to it in particular, they ended up losing it to Turks. It is the prime reason why we lost Western Armenia in 1918 after the Russians pulled out. Russian Armenians at the time felt no interest in fighting a war of "Turkish Armenians", who were flooding Russian Armenia as refugees and were not looked upon very nicely by the "natives" in those days.

It is truly ridiculous to be divided like this, it must stop now and our politicians who seek to divide us as Armenians should be removed from power and put to justice. At the end of the day, we must all see eachother as the same people trying to help the same country.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Israel, Azerbaijan to step up military cooperation

An Israeli-made armored jeep displayed by the Azerbaijani army. Azerbaijan State TV

Washington - An Israeli company will launch production of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) in Azerbaijan, and the two countries will cooperate in other military areas, including satellite technology, Azerbaijani news agencies reported. The deals were reportedly finalized as Israeli President Shimon Peres visited Azerbaijan on June 28-29.

Since the opening of the Baku-Ceyhan oil pipeline in 2006, Azerbaijan became one of the largest crude-oil suppliers to Israel. Israel has in turn emerged as a major arms supplier to Azerbaijan. Supplies have already including artillery systems, communications equipment, and UAVs.

Although Azerbaijan continues to threaten a military confrontation with Armenia, and during his visit Mr. Peres reportedly promised that Israel and the Jewish Diaspora "will do all [they] can to support Azerbaijan's territorial integrity," there was no immediate reaction from Armenia.

Mr. Peres' visit took place despite open opposition expressed by senior Iranian officials. And street protests in Baku were quickly dispersed by police. Still, according to the Islam.ru news service, officials decided not to hoist flags of the visiting leader's country around Baku, as they customarily do, apparently wary of incidents.

http://www.reporter.am/go/article/2009-07-03-israel-azerbaijan-to-step-up-military-cooperation

------------------------------------------------------------
Meanwhile...

Meeting between Armenian and Iranian Defense Ministers to be held in Tehran

04.07.2009 16:22 GMT+04:00

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ On July 3, RA Defense Minister Seyran Ohanyan met Iranian Ambassador to RA Seyed Ali Saghaeyan. According to Press Secretary of RA Minister of Defense, Colonel Sergey Shakhsuvaryan, Defense Minister congratulated the Ambassador on recent victory of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in recent presidential elections and expressed a hope that Armenian - Iranian relations will strengthen and enter a new stage of development.

The parties focused on both countries positions on regional issues as well as bilateral relations, exchanged views on regional security and stability. Within meeting framework, Seyed Ali Saghaeyan passed the invitation of Iranian Defense Minister, Mayor General Mohammad Najjar to Seyran Ohanyan.

http://panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=33942

[jgk3]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Ok guys, I'm glad we had this discussion but it's not the first time that this thread has begun to derail significantly from its intended topic, so I had to do a cleanup. I moved the discussion to a new thread: http://forum.hyeclub.com/showthread....522#post273522 If you have a better name for the title, let me know by pm.

[iversonmania]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Looking Eastward: Peres proves a hit in Azerbaijan

During the first leg of his unprecedented four-day trip to the two former Soviet Muslim republics of Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan, President Shimon Peres stopped over for a weekend visit in Baku, capital of Azerbaijan. His visit sent a clear message to neighboring Iran, negating assertions of groups like al-Qaida and representatives of Muslim countries that xxxs and Muslims are doomed to perpetual conflict.
Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliev, right, and his visiting Israeli counterpart Shimon Peres, left, shake hands during their meeting in the Azerbaijani capital Baku, Sunday.




Even before embarking on his visit, Peres set the tone by telling Azerbaijani news agency Trend News that tolerance for other religions typifies both countries.
"A lot of things unite us," he said. "Azerbaijan manifests tolerance and respect to the point where xxxs, Muslims and Christians can live without hatred and fanaticism. That is why [Azerbaijan] for me is a special country which I can trust. This country has its own cultural roots. Oil can be bought, but culture needs to be created.
"Azerbaijan is a small nation. Both Azerbaijan and Israel face the same problem: how can a small nation become great? You can become great regardless of the size of your territory if you accept all the riches of modern science and technology."
Peres also emphasized the desire of the Israeli leadership to share technological and scientific assets with Azerbaijan. He continued his interview by saying that "Israel does not possess significant territory, water, natural gas or petroleum. That is why we have to rely on our brainpower and our science. We will share everything we possess with Azerbaijan in the areas of common interest." Well-briefed about the paternalistic nature of the Aliyev regime, Peres paid tribute to Heydar Aliyev, the late father of current Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev. He mentioned that he had met Heydar Aliyev twice and was impressed with this "highly educated man, who respected tradition."




To further endear himself to his Azerbaijani hosts, Peres pointed to the established democratic tradition in this secular country. He mentioned that Azerbaijani women gained suffrage before such Western countries as Switzerland and the United States.
Peres also focused on the shared experience of living in a hostile neighborhood. Pointing to the Armenian occupation of Nagorno-Karabakh and unfriendly activities of the Iranian state apparatus, he said: "I am aware that Azerbaijan faces a difficult problem emanating from your neighbors. In politics, it is impossible to choose neighbors, as it is impossible in the family to choose one's parents. Such is life. Israel fully supports the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan."
Calling for full diplomatic representation and the opening of an embassy in Israel, Peres intimated that Israel expresses its support for Azerbaijan's territorial integrity in international forums. For Azerbaijan to resolve the Nagorno-Karabakh issue positively, Peres called upon its authorities not only to get closer to Israel, but also to strengthen ties with American xxxry. THIS VISIT represents the consummation of a trend begun in 1992 to deepen and expand bilateral cooperation in economics, agriculture, science and military affairs.
Peres was accompanied by Industry, Trade and Labor Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer and National Infrastructures Minister Uzi Landau, the director-general of the Defense Ministry, top executives of Israel Military Industries, and 60 businessmen seeking to tighten economic ties with both Azerbaijan and nearby Khazakstan, two Caspian Sea states.
Among other issues, energy security occupied pride of place. Plans for pipelines to deliver Azerbaijani natural gas to Israel via Georgia and Turkey were discussed. Ben-Eliezer, as the infrastructure minister in the previous government, was directly involved in negotiations about cooperation in energy and water management,and Landau was briefed about the details.On the first day of his visit, Peres met Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev and other officials for talks on bilateral relations as well as regional and international issues, according to the Azerbaijani news agency Azertaj. This discussion touched on two interrelated issues - the unresolved conflict with Armenia over Nagorno-Karabakh and relations with Iran, which supports Armenia. Both leaders signed agreements boosting cooperation in culture, education, science and hi-tech. Concerned about threats emanating from their neighbors and improving the balance of power vis-à-vis Armenia, Azerbaijani officials also expressed interest in buying more Israeli arms, in addition to several previous multimillion-dollar deals.
Exploiting the common bond of Shi'ite Islam, Iranian secret services for years have been attempting to create secret pro-Iranian cells in Azerbaijan; they sponsor the Azerbaijani Islamic Party. On June 17, police briefly detained 19 members of the pro-Iranian party for protesting Peres's visit outside the Foreign Ministry in Baku. The Israeli delegation's arrival coincided with the trial of four Azerbaijanis and two Lebanese charged with plotting to blow up the Israeli Embassy in Baku last year. Azerbaijani authorities allege the suspects were connected with Hizbullah and al-Qaida.
Before Peres's visit, the Iranian leadership had tried arm-twisting in an attempt to force Azerbaijan to cancel it. That was the purpose of last month's visit by Iranian Chief of Staff Hasan Firuzabadi. According to Azerbaijani MP Gudrat Gasanguliev, the Iranian media fanned hysteria during the days of the Peres visit, claiming that there were mass rallies in Azerbaijan to protest the meeting. The final straw in this anti-Israeli campaign was the departure of the Iranian ambassador from Baku - allegedly as a sign of solidarity with the people of Azerbaijan - as Peres arrived in the airport. Gasanguliev said in parliament on June 30 that "Azerbaijan extends friendly ties with Iran, while the Iranian authorities openly express their enmity." He concluded about the Israeli visit that "the majority of the population welcomed the visit and the further expansion of Azerbaijani-Israeli relations."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1246443736626&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[UrMistake]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Omg were did he get that??Azeris respect other religions??Will we have to refresh his memores of Jihad against Armenia or antisemitism in same volume as Turkey dose.
Israel did not chose other religous population leave with them they just stuck with them creating numorus problems to international comunity.they divide and help according there in there profit the christians orthodoxs muslims.

I guess this u get when u vote ultra right parties.Fools that will do the job.

[hipeter924]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

It doesn't matter to the Israeli Foreign Ministry, they are quite happy to play Muslims and Christians against each other...so long as they can earn a profit from doing so.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Aliyev Says Parties Have Agreed to Karabakh Withdrawal

BAKU (APA)—In what can be considered the most revealing announcement to date on the details of the Nagorno-Karabakh peace process, Azeri President Ilham Aliyev over the weekend said that consensus has been reached among the parties to begin the withdrawal from the liberated territories surrounding the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic.
Aliyev, who was speaking to the subject in an interview with Russian State Television, also signaled that Karabakh would effectively be cut off from Armenia, adding that these principles have been agreed upon without any discussion on the status of Nagorno-Karabakh.
“The point is that we understand the concerns of those living in Nagorno-Karabakh that after the return of all seven occupied regions of Azerbaijan, Nagorno-Karabakh will again be cut off geographically from Armenia because Nagorno Karabakh never has had links with Armenia,” said Aliyev.
“The proposals which we are discussing today and which we accept and agree on do not include the question of status. If this is brought up again as a precondition for coordination of positions, we will not achieve anything,” added Aliyev. “We certainly do not see any possibility of the existence of Nagorno-Karabakh as an independent state.”
Aliyev also insisted that Karabakh should revert back to its Soviet status of being an “Autonomous Oblast.”
The Azeri president explained that under that status, the governing structure of Karabakh was a body comprised of an Azeri representative from Shoushi, which he claimed was populated by 90 percent Azeris. In his view, under the peace agreement, Shoushi should be populated again by a majority Azeri population.
“After Azeris return to Shoushi and Nagorno-Karabakh, we will naturally discuss the question of the status in the future. Of course, Nagorno Karabakh should have some kind of status. We understand this. But, we do not see this status outside the sovereign Azeri State. I think that the process of negotiations could be more constructive after the liberation of the occupied territories,” emphasized Aliyev.
“The question is the phased withdrawal of Armenian forces from occupied territories outside Nagorno-Karabakh is the first stage. Immediately after the signing of agreements, troops are slated to be withdrawn from five regions,” explained Aliyev adding that the withdrawal of forces from two regions—Kelbajar and Lachin—would take place five years after the initial pull back “given those regions’ geographic position.”
He explained the withdrawal from the liberated territories is reflected in all OSCE Minsk Group proposals and only after the complete withdrawal can there be discussion of a status for Karabakh.
“It may take a year, maybe ten years, maybe 100 years or it will never be possible. Time will tell,” said Aliyev about the time it would take to determine the status of Karabakh.

http://www.asbarez.com/2009/07/06/aliyev-says-parties-have-agreed-to-karabakh-withdrawal/

i think this is bullxxxx aimed at turning the Armenian diaspora and the Armenian people against the govt. earlier aliyev had said that lachin would stay with Armenia so there would be a direct link between Armenia and Artsakh and now he says there will be no link. Sargisyan would never accept such a deal, him being from Artsakh. He wouldnt want his birth country to be under foreign occupation.

[crusader1492]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Aliyev Says Parties Have Agreed to Karabakh Withdrawal

BAKU (APA)—In what can be considered the most revealing announcement to date on the details of the Nagorno-Karabakh peace process, Azeri President Ilham Aliyev over the weekend said that consensus has been reached among the parties to begin the withdrawal from the liberated territories surrounding the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic.
Aliyev, who was speaking to the subject in an interview with Russian State Television, also signaled that Karabakh would effectively be cut off from Armenia, adding that these principles have been agreed upon without any discussion on the status of Nagorno-Karabakh.
“The point is that we understand the concerns of those living in Nagorno-Karabakh that after the return of all seven occupied regions of Azerbaijan, Nagorno-Karabakh will again be cut off geographically from Armenia because Nagorno Karabakh never has had links with Armenia,” said Aliyev.
“The proposals which we are discussing today and which we accept and agree on do not include the question of status. If this is brought up again as a precondition for coordination of positions, we will not achieve anything,” added Aliyev. “We certainly do not see any possibility of the existence of Nagorno-Karabakh as an independent state.”
Aliyev also insisted that Karabakh should revert back to its Soviet status of being an “Autonomous Oblast.”
The Azeri president explained that under that status, the governing structure of Karabakh was a body comprised of an Azeri representative from Shoushi, which he claimed was populated by 90 percent Azeris. In his view, under the peace agreement, Shoushi should be populated again by a majority Azeri population.
“After Azeris return to Shoushi and Nagorno-Karabakh, we will naturally discuss the question of the status in the future. Of course, Nagorno Karabakh should have some kind of status. We understand this. But, we do not see this status outside the sovereign Azeri State. I think that the process of negotiations could be more constructive after the liberation of the occupied territories,” emphasized Aliyev.
“The question is the phased withdrawal of Armenian forces from occupied territories outside Nagorno-Karabakh is the first stage. Immediately after the signing of agreements, troops are slated to be withdrawn from five regions,” explained Aliyev adding that the withdrawal of forces from two regions—Kelbajar and Lachin—would take place five years after the initial pull back “given those regions’ geographic position.”
He explained the withdrawal from the liberated territories is reflected in all OSCE Minsk Group proposals and only after the complete withdrawal can there be discussion of a status for Karabakh.
“It may take a year, maybe ten years, maybe 100 years or it will never be possible. Time will tell,” said Aliyev about the time it would take to determine the status of Karabakh.

http://www.asbarez.com/2009/07/06/aliyev-says-parties-have-agreed-to-karabakh-withdrawal/

i think this is bullxxxx aimed at turning the Armenian diaspora and the Armenian people against the govt. earlier aliyev had said that lachin would stay with Armenia so there would be a direct link between Armenia and Artsakh and now he says there will be no link. Sargisyan would never accept such a deal, him being from Artsakh. He wouldnt want his birth country to be under foreign occupation.

I read this article to too and my first reaction was anger. However, this sentiment lasted about 5 seconds because I soon realized that this "news" came out of Aliyev's (an accomplished liar's) mouth.

With that said, I would like to see a swift and strong rebuke of Aliyev's comments by President Sargsyan.

...Silence, on the Armenian side, does not inspire confidence.

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

If capitulation of NK agreed why buying these arms from Israel etc