Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

If you're referring to Azeris then this is not possible. As much as I see why they should be able to go back to "their" homes, no Azeri should be allowed to return. This will tip the demographics scale in their balance and we would risk being a minority in our own country (Artsakh). Those Azeris have been reproducing like rabbits for twenty years now and they will claim anyone and everyone just so they maximize the "refugees'" numbers and facilitate a natural takeover if the military means does not happen. Azerbaijan should just use its oil money to settle these refugees in Baku once and for all. Besides, historically there were no Azeris in Artsakh; they were moved there in order to do to Artsakh what they did with Nakhichevan.

We can never live together in peace. The Azeris have been trained and bred for twenty years to be genocidal maniacs bent on the destruction of the Armenian people.

i dont think there r that many azeris that left Artsakh. according to the council of Europe there are only 8606 azeri refugees. i dont think them going back would shift the demographics that much. I know there were no azeris in Artsakh but u have to compromise. azeris will not accept getting nothing and this conflict will never end.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Did Armenian side deny it?

I didn't heard anything from Armenian side.

And do you predict a close future war?

The Armenian side doesnt address everything azeris claim because majority of news coming out of azerbaijan is anti-Armenian so we dont waste our time addressing nonsense.
I hope there is no war. if there is its going to be started by the azeris again. We Armenians dont start wars, we protect ourselves. if u look throughout history we have always been attacked and we have always protected ourselves.

[Aslanov]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The Armenian side doesnt address everything azeris claim because majority of news coming out of azerbaijan is anti-Armenian so we dont waste our time addressing nonsense.
I hope there is no war. if there is its going to be started by the azeris again. We Armenians dont start wars, we protect ourselves. if u look throughout history we have always been attacked and we have always protected ourselves.

Well, military might of Azerbaijan is incomparable to both NK and Armenian army. Surely it would not be a walk over for AZ military but still.

I wonder if you guys just believe in Russian involvement?

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Well, military might of Azerbaijan is incomparable to both NK and Armenian army. Surely it would not be a walk over for AZ military but still.

I wonder if you guys just believe in Russian involvement?

According to the CFE Treaty Armenia and azerbaijan can only have a certain amount of artillery:
20,000 tanks
20,000 artillery pieces
30,000 armored combat vehicles (ACVs)
6,800 combat aircraft and
2,000 attack helicopters.
To further limit the readiness of armed forces, the treaty sets equal ceilings on equipment that may be with active units. Other ground equipment must be in designated permanent storage sites. The limits for equipment each side may have in active units are:
16,500 tanks
17,000 artillery pieces and
27,300 armored combat vehicles (ACVs)
The treaty further limits the proportion of armaments that can be held by any one country in Europe to about one-third of the total for all countries in Europe - the "sufficiency" rule. These limits are:
13,300 tanks
13,700 artillery pieces
20,000 armored combat vehicles (ACVs)
5,150 combat aircraft and
1,500 attack helicopters.

azerbaijan has completely ignored this treaty. We know they have more, Armenia still follows the treaty so we know how much artillery they have. Artsakh isnt a part of the treaty. There havent been any inventory of the artillery in Artsakh. Only Armenia and Artsakh know how much artillery there is. Dont forget Russia gave us a billion dollars worth of artillery for free. that artillery isnt in Armenia because of the treaty. We were outnumbered in the first war, we are outnumbered in this war, we are always the underdog and yet we are still here.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

i dont think there r that many azeris that left Artsakh. according to the council of Europe there are only 8606 azeri refugees. i dont think them going back would shift the demographics that much. I know there were no azeris in Artsakh but u have to compromise. azeris will not accept getting nothing and this conflict will never end.

Those are the so-called "refugees" within NK. I am talking about Artsakh which includes the so-called "7 districts". Those districts had hundreds of thousands of them.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Those are the so-called "refugees" within NK. I am talking about Artsakh which includes the so-called "7 districts". Those districts had hundreds of thousands of them.

here is the article from the council of europe:
“13. In Azerbaijan three categories of people need to be distinguished: displaced persons who had to flee Karabakh, displaced persons from the districts of the Republic of Azerbaijan that are, strictly speaking, occupied, and Azerbaijanis from Armenia, who are refugees under international humanitarian law. It is impossible to establish the number of people currently concerned with any certainty …These figures can however be updated by statistics provided by UNHCR (for the end of 2004)11 which indicate a figure of 578,545 internally displaced persons and 8,606 refugees”.
compare that to the article about Armenia
“…the number of refugees opting for Armenian citizenship was relatively small. This changed with the enactment in 2000 of a law on persons forcibly displaced from Azerbaijan between 1988 and 1992 who have been naturalised; …As a result, over 15,000 refugees in 2000 and over 16,000 in 2001 acquired citizenship …In terms of numbers of refugees and displaced persons, …These figures can however be updated by more recent statistics (end of 2004) provided by UNHCR4 which indicate a figure of 235,235 refugees.”

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

here is the article from the council of europe:
“13. In Azerbaijan three categories of people need to be distinguished: displaced persons who had to flee Karabakh, displaced persons from the districts of the Republic of Azerbaijan that are, strictly speaking, occupied, and Azerbaijanis from Armenia, who are refugees under international humanitarian law. It is impossible to establish the number of people currently concerned with any certainty …These figures can however be updated by statistics provided by UNHCR (for the end of 2004)11 which indicate a figure of 578,545 internally displaced persons and 8,606 refugees”.
compare that to the article about Armenia
“…the number of refugees opting for Armenian citizenship was relatively small. This changed with the enactment in 2000 of a law on persons forcibly displaced from Azerbaijan between 1988 and 1992 who have been naturalised; …As a result, over 15,000 refugees in 2000 and over 16,000 in 2001 acquired citizenship …In terms of numbers of refugees and displaced persons, …These figures can however be updated by more recent statistics (end of 2004) provided by UNHCR4 which indicate a figure of 235,235 refugees.”

Watch out here, it seems like a rather vague statement. IDP for Azerbaijan can mean Azerbaijanis who were thrown out of Artsakh itself since much of the world community still views Artsakh as part of Azerbaijan.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Watch out here, it seems like a rather vague statement. IDP for Azerbaijan can mean Azerbaijanis who were thrown out of Artsakh itself since much of the world community still views Artsakh as part of Azerbaijan.

here is the whole article, it has more details.

http://assembly.coe.int/Main.asp?link=/Documents/WorkingDocs/Doc06/EDOC10835.htm

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Do they count newborns to refugees in Azerbaijan as refuges.

[D3ADSY]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Well, military might of Azerbaijan is incomparable to both NK and Armenian army. Surely it would not be a walk over for AZ military but still.

That's what everyone thought back in 1988 too. This time Azeris have to launch an offensive against a heavily dug in Armenian side that is well trained, well equipped and highly motivated.

Azeris love to parade all their new toys and love to talk tough but that doesn't prove anything. The Georgians loved to put on big parades and show off their hardware too. Was it a reflection of their battlefield capabilities? Hardly.