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Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    There is a lot of talks within the civil society and the intelligentsia now, and for the first time so loudly and openly, about a change of tactics from our side.
    Some ideas are not very serious, but most want a clear cut retaliation disproportionality officialised.
    Most ask for at least 1/10.
    I still think the question is ill presented.

    1- The risk of 'accidental war' is simply nil. Not 1%, or less than 1%, but simply nil.
    Given the sophistications, objective and subjective constraints on the ground, the essence of power, the fact that the clan in power in Baku is perfectly aware of the outcome of a new war, only 2 deciders can decide the launch of a war from the azeri side:
    - Son Aliyev in person, and only him.
    - Turkey (here possible decision centers might be more than one: AKP/MIT/Army...): if really Turkey wanted a war, it could impose it, regardless the objections of Ilham).
    But as a matter of fact, Turkey is not in a position to do this kind of gamble right now, given its recent honeymoon with the US, and its vulnerabilities on virtually all sides, thank to US/EU led containment policy.
    Simply speaking, Turkey has too much in stake elsewhere, to even think seriously of Armenia.
    Remains Ilham: he is certainly not a master class player like his father, nevertheless there is no evidence to assume he is so stupid, to not understand where his basic interests are. You do not need to be Einstein to understand it.
    So, as long as his clan's power pyramid is in place, he has no reason to change attitude.
    We must be much more worried, if there was shaking of his power by mass protests, arab spring or color revolution style.
    But given immediate futur priorities, no one has interest in it.
    CONCLUSION: There will not be war, because an accidental war is impossible, and Ilham nor Turkey need a war now.

    2- The military escalations, and loss of life on our side, is only happening, because Ilham has the conviction of immunity.
    That is, he is 100 % sure, that we, on our turn, will not launch a war, since this is an outcome he wants to avoid at any cost.
    If we could convince him, or his sponsors, that we, from our side can end up launching a preemptive attack, he would certainly stop his actual tactics.
    But on this point, I must admit, his presumptions are quite founded.
    Our leadership, purely interested in keeping its grip on power, is not interested in a war neither.
    They could do it, only in case of immediate war threat.
    Since that threat in its turn depends from Ilham.....
    CONCLUSION: Ilham acts like a jerk, because he is certain his action, no matter how bloody, will not end up by a war.

    3- Now, if we want to halt the useless bloodshed of our young boys, and since conceivably we are not willing to use the threat of preemptive big war ( no matter here if this is wise or not), we need to find an other way to make him think twice, and eventually spare most young lives lost every year.
    Till now, our army's strategy was :
    - make sure we have the edge technologically and operatively.
    - make sure they (and their sponsors) know we will win the war, if they dare to launch it.
    - punish every loss of life by relative disproportional retaliation tactics.

    I must say, this tactic worked rather fine, for a very long time. Specially during old Aliyev's days.
    The problem is, things had changed.
    The oil revenues exploded, and to justify a much bigger plunder than ever before, Ilham feels he must 'deliver' much more than before. (once more, no matter here, if he is right or wrong)
    Feeling immunity, he has opted for this criminal tactic....

    Now, by declaring our will to retaliate or actually retaliating disproportionally, we can not have results, since he has no consideration whatsoever about the life of ordinary conscripts. Most are poor family, minority childs...we see rarely people from central Baku among the eliminated guys.
    We may as well eliminate 1/25, it may not change much.
    It will be much better, but will not change the basics of the problem.
    The only retaliation effective must be so much disproportional, that its very huge cost, may create risk of shaking his power.
    This is something not easy to achieve, by our actual tactics.
    (For the 4 lives lost, we must have retaliated by something like 400...)

    So we must rethink all together the rules of the game, and accept the glove he is throwing on our face.
    If he can afford this tactics, rightfully assuming the risk of 'accidental war' is nil, then we may do just the same calculus.
    Wich means: we may certainly afford using not only equivalent (small calibers, at best mortars/RPG) use, but disproportional use of armements, without risking an incontrolable escalation of events to a full war, provided we declare our intentions clearly and firmly, and stick to them.
    - You kill a soldier by a sniper bullet, or even attempt to kill one, the nearest blindage and the trenches around will be smashed by heavy artillery fire in the coming hours. If they chose to follow, we will push one step more, ad every level, until the moment they will stop from escalating, since they do not want the war...
    - You sent a dyversia group, immediately a heavy artillery barrage of several hundred rockets will retaliate on the launching pad of the assailants (thus making sure most of the very attackers, their 'best troops' will get decimated, and not only 'innocent' conscripts on other sections), and even nearest civil targets, like a town or village...., even if they follow, at some point, they will be forced to desescalate...

    -Or, if we want to avert civil losses, then, hit a big civil economical target, a pumping station, a tube, etc...
    At some moment they will have to stop following the escalation...

    We just have to convince ourselves, that this will not lead to total war, since they do not need nor want it.
    Last edited by Vrej1915; 06-10-2012, 01:26 AM.

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    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Սահմանում սպանված ադրբեջանցի զինվորի ծնողները փորձել են ինքնահրկիզվել
      17:45 . 09/06
      Այսօր Բաքվում, Ադրբեջանի խորհրդարանից հեռուստաաշտարակ տանող ճանապարհին, միջին տարիքի մի տղամարդ եւ մեծահասակ մի կին բողոքի ակցիա են կազմակերպել: Տղամարդն իր վրա բենզին է լցրել ու փորձել ինքնահրկիզվել։
      Ադրբեջանական աղբյուրներին հղումով՝ yerkir.am-ը տեղեկացնում է՝ նրանք բողոքել են, որ հայ-ադրբեջանական ԶՈՒ շփման գծում իրենց հարազատի մահն անուշադրության է մատնվել:
      Դեպքի վայր ժամանած` Ադրբեջանի ՊՆ աշխատակիցները գրել են զոհվածի անունը եւ խոստացել հետաքննություն անցկացնել:
      Ադրբեջանական այդ աղբյուրը նաեւ գրում է, որ ադրբեջանական բանակի կորուստներն ավելի շատ են, քան ներկայացվում է պաշտոնապես:


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      • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

        Originally posted by Vrej1915 View Post

        We just have to convince ourselves, that this will not lead to total war, since they do not need nor want it.
        i think tit for tat wont work, doesn't matter if it's 1:1 or 1:100 kill ratio. I think it would be better to gain something strategic, ie either take over land, or take out an oil pipe or station.
        This certainly must be planned ahead for each front. each direction.
        doing this will need ALOT of work from our side. Planning, risk analyses, having constant readiness, and a rapid-response task force, ready to strike at order. These kinds of operations need months to set up. (and money too)
        So say, they take out one of ours by a sniper on one front, we make a diversion attack on another front, while launching the real operation on completely another front. All this must be coordinated precisely.
        Of course, today's UAVs make it hard to move lots of hardware from point A to B, and not be detected.
        So what i'm saying is can we logistically, economically and militarily do this? I dunno.

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        • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          Zinuj (09.06.2012)
          Last edited by Hovo; 06-13-2012, 12:13 PM.

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          • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

            Zinuj (10.06.2012)
            Last edited by Hovo; 06-13-2012, 12:14 PM.

            Comment


            • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              Vrej I am with you on this one (I been saying just about the same for a while) but what about the Russians you think they would interfere with such decisions or not.
              B0zkurt Hunter

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              • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                Originally posted by Wanted View Post
                Hello neighbors seems like xxxx is escalating and at the same time its all calm and clear, i am currently in Baku and i see youngsters walking around and yelling some slogans soldiers walking around the city . not sure if its just separate reaction to the flare ups or the government is trying to raise a morale before a big storm. i read and follow news ours yours russian and etc. and i see all 3 different picturies, I will explain, Your medis states of about 54 death on our side, funny thing is our media reports about 56 death on your side, russian media is stating about 9-12 death for each , but i guess those are confirmed deaths and we have about 9 to 10 and for some odd reason the same is on your side. I do understand than none of us lost 50 soldiers because that would have escalated in something serious long time ago but 9-10 is more or less close to what it could be. Now i know y ou can come up with 1000 of articles saying that Azerbaijanis lost 50 soldiers but i can show the same and i dont trust anyone at this point because information war seems to be more serious than the actual skirmishes.

                Anyways speedy recovery to all wounded and RIP to all fallen, i am getting old and i just started a family guess if the war breaks out now i can still go and participate because in 2-3 years when i have kids it will be a tougher decision for me. Anyhow please refrain from replying to me saying that Azeri media lies and our super Armenia media says only the turth or blah blah , we are all the same candy with different wrap...

                Hello good old friend from our lovely country.
                yh im with you..i don't believe any article or news..more over i don't believe Russians...but there is someone whom i believe and that's my uncle...who is major in one of the N-th military unit. 2 hours ago i was talking with him via skype..and he answered some of my questions...sure not all of them im going to share but im just going to say that yeah its true whats happening out there..we had more wounds than its mentioned in the articles but there is one thing he said that we cannot hide the deaths and yeah we had 4 lose.so he means that the mentioned deaths in the articles is right..since journalist are already searching something to "attack" the government.. what about ur side is estimated to be 15-25..but not less than 15..he specified some cases how ur soldiers died..but im not going to share..and he said one more importing thing. "yes they tried to do something but we just "teghe dretsink"...sry the last two words i couldn't translate so i ask for my fellows to translate it for u.

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                • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  Alieve wanted a blow to Armenia and played a game, he lost it

                  Now there is a big problem on the ground. He lost a lot of commando's and we lost only 4 his number are higher than 50. The situation seems to be calmer now then before wonder why?

                  Now either they are going to blink, becuase they know this is going to be a meat grinder for them! Things have changed, last war with shutguns we had a 10 to 1 ratio, what do you think the ratio is going to be now that we have a huge defensive belt? Now if he is not going to blink then lets get the show on the road.

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                  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    Verj pointed out some thing that I don't agree with. For example toorky attacked another Nato member state and took control of Cyprus during the height of the cold war. What did NATO do about it? ...LOL

                    So you see it is what you don’t see that matters. Let us never make assumptions again we are discounting things too easily and saying this and that. The reality is and has been seen to be much different. Take what the filth toorks are going in Syria now! This is a game, and if you understand the game you will understand that the baboon just blinked, it may not last long but they did just blink. You can’t go on an adventure with special commando units against 18 year olds and get you ass kicked and not blink....LOL

                    So we wait to see if the red faces in Baku will turn yellower or will they make another stupid move. Either way I say lets finish this. If you keep listening to forked tongues and not take action we will suffer more. Let us hit them where we want, they have no choice but to hit us where we are strong, as we have one of the best defensive belt systems ever built on earth. This is going to be a real nice game to finish.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      Originally posted by Spetsnaz View Post
                      Hello good old friend from our lovely country.
                      yh im with you..i don't believe any article or news..more over i don't believe Russians...but there is someone whom i believe and that's my uncle...who is major in one of the N-th military unit. 2 hours ago i was talking with him via skype..and he answered some of my questions...sure not all of them im going to share but im just going to say that yeah its true whats happening out there..we had more wounds than its mentioned in the articles but there is one thing he said that we cannot hide the deaths and yeah we had 4 lose.so he means that the mentioned deaths in the articles is right..since journalist are already searching something to "attack" the government.. what about ur side is estimated to be 15-25..but not less than 15..he specified some cases how ur soldiers died..but im not going to share..and he said one more importing thing. "yes they tried to do something but we just "teghe dretsink"...sry the last two words i couldn't translate so i ask for my fellows to translate it for u.

                      The two words you did not translate mean 'put them in their place'.
                      For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
                      to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



                      http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

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