Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[ArmeniaSacra]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

agree with you 100%. our current borders need some adjustment, specially tavush NKR is in a better shape though.

100%

think what Armenia should aim for is not to take over Baku.....but to establih a border with Russia (surround Georgia).
It would not be a good idea for Armenia to start the war (I am against that), but in case of an attack from Azerbaijan into Armenia proper, now that is a different ball game, it would be justified.

I have thought about this alot, but forming a border with Russia woule eventually mean 2 things, which are not easy to accomplish

1. Taking over the oil routes to the west...I don't think anyone's gonna let Armenia do that
2. Cutting the contact between Azerbaijan and Turkey (currently through Georgia)...which turkey's not going to allow to happen (i don't know how it may respond...it will take a very deep ananlysis)

Maybe something like this could be possible after Azerbaijan stops from being an energy exporter, but in the current situation...It's almost impossible.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The russian-azeri border is very mountainous, only paved highway is near the coast, which is too far for us. Qax/Zaqtala region is closer and would surround georgia, but it's mountainous, we'd need to dig a new roki tunnel

With our current manpower (and airpower) digging might be easier than to hold a new long border with some pissed off baboons all the down to Iran.

Taking it is one thing.....keeping is another.

[arakeretzig]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

100%

Maybe something like this could be possible after Azerbaijan stops from being an energy exporter, but in the current situation...It's almost impossible.

the thing is, if azeris attack NKR again, we have to give them another lesson. Otherwise, every few years, they'll do the same thing with impunity (kinda like the tavush skirmishes) but on a much bigger scale and wider timeline.
IMHO, Every action needs to have a reaction. What's the best way to punish azeris(and turks at the same time)? Take over BTC pipeline.
If we don't dare play their game, then we might as well quit and call it a day now, cuz they will play it to the end.
Who do you think Azeris get their green card from on attacking NKR and Armenia? (the US/Israel, backed by turks)
They want to finish us off for good, shall we let them do it, or seize a historical moment?
I mean when was the last time armenia has such an oppertunity to liberate its lands? 1000 years ago?

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenian Army

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I wanted to ask you about this. How efficient will azeri mig-29s will be over artsakh? if we assume that they don't have any PGMs, how efficient will dummy bombing be over a little area such as artsakh by mig-29s? they've around 50 mig-29s, i doubt they'll just let them rot in reserve, they'll surely use them for whatever they can.
also, having in mind there's a S300-PS in Goris covering artsakh now, but that's entirely other topic i guess.

First of all they don't have 50 MiG-29s. Do not rely on dubious sources. The total number of MiG-29s in current service is 13. They are ex-Ukrainian airplanes that they received a few years ago.
Second, they are early model units that have been refurbished (not modernized) in Ukraine before delivery. They are mainly for air defence. They ground attack options are limited to unguided bombs and rockets, no PGMs.
Third, having S300 anywhere near Goris (or NKR) means that the Azeri aircraft cannot patrol at altitude anywhere near NKR. They will have to stay at very low altitude (which increases fuel burn and decreases patrol time) and be vulnerable to our short range defences.

[gokorik]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

"Again with your BS, I never said we need to have a democracy. Maybe YOU are the Western agent. Having democracy is but a trivial problem facing Armenia."

LOL, I'm the agent...ROTFLMAO

"Let me know if you have any real arguments instead of the crazy monologue going on inside your head."

If you did not understand what was written before what makes you think you will understand anything after?

Have a nice ride on the plane with Donald on the Revolution...ROTFLMAO

So it seems there is someone more crazy then Vahram on this board, you earned it!

brace yourselves folks there is going to be a revolution in Armenia...ROTF

"I am urging you to think before you speak (or type in this case). "

Do you want me to type before or after the "Revolution" ?...ROTFLMAO!

I hear that not only is Donald Duck going with you but you are also taking a monkey with you...

Enjoy your stay I'm sure you are welcome now not only in Armenia but people on this board! At least I know the azeribaboons love you now! Good job!

Vahram, what are you saying? if you"re not a clever azeri trying to derail this forum then you are an Armenian who isn't saying much but ROTFLMAO and how his brother is wrong because you say so. you offer no argument!

Honestly, if you full-heartedly support the current regime, you are probably a criminal.

It is possible that, with lack of awareness, people think that the economic situation in Armenia acceptable. I'm definitely not advocating for a revolution but if in a dream world, all the oligarchy, corruption, monopoly and tax evasion could be completely erased it would be much easier for lower or middle class Armenian to have a financial dream and actually achieve it. the thought that it's a joke to dream in Armenia is not completely true but i feel that the the most guaranteed way of financial success for a family is to have their able body members to leave the country. if people had a reason to dream with Armenia in mind they wouldn't think of separating with their families. if the hundreds of thousands of lower and middle class family were succeeding to the degree that was possible, these families would spend their money in the country thus fueling economic growth thus increasing investment thus the amount of taxes thus giving conscripts better equipment to fight the next war.

most of what an air force can provide is an air cover and air support. The S-300 and other SAMS would force them low or face large losses. they would have to run SEAD(suppression of enemy air deffense) missions to take away that air cover, which they do not have the resource necessary to achieve even partial success. Su-25's artillery, MLRS's and totchkas can provide suport but i think Armenia is long overdue for a large scale rearmament in the artillery support area(more smerches long range artillery and hopefully Iskander's ). if anyone has the money for they're dream air force then cough it up. even if you did have the money, in my opinion that money spent elsewhere would make more of a difference in saving Armenian lives. in a surprise attack any airbase in Armenia is in range of artillery or rockets and in mere seconds to minutes you would have airstrips with craters and damage infrastructure not to mention the possibility of destroyed or damaged aircraft. The hundreds of millions of dollars that would have been lost could be spent on equipment that would survive the initial bombardment and be used in combat.

I wanted to ask you about this. How efficient will azeri mig-29s will be over artsakh? if we assume that they don't have any PGMs, how efficient will dummy bombing be over a little area such as artsakh by mig-29s? they've around 50 mig-29s, i doubt they'll just let them rot in reserve, they'll surely use them for whatever they can.
also, having in mind there's a S300-PS in Goris covering artsakh now, but that's entirely other topic i guess.

Even if they had pgm the s-300's that would likely be directed at them would force them to fly low thus exposing them to the an array of AAA MANPAD's and low altitude SAM's. they would have to run suppression of enemy air defense operations with mi-35's to preoccupy some of the low level air defenss to try and get deep into Artsakh. (which they don't need to do cause of the EXTRA missile curtsey of the Heryas.)

I am no expert but the Mig-29s would be useless over Artsakh to most degree, unless they get retrofited (Armenianized) to fly bomber and/or strategic ground strick mission.......use your speed fly in and out before the enemy can say "what was that".

I don't think Azerbaijan will risk its Migs in war over NKR.......over Armenia? you bet, they will use it. Again, this is just my opinion and I don't claim to be an expert in airial warfare.

To come in undetected against the pmu-2 is in my armature opinion not possible...

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Wings over Armenia....flight of two.

That is the exact type of plane and the exact type of flight method that is needed to destroy strategic (bridges, airfields, command centers.etc) and economic (oil fields, refineries etc.) targets while at the same avoid the Azeri S-300 PMU-2 missiles which have a range of up to 200km (depending on altitude). When flying at low level, the S-300 air defense battery's kill zones will be less than 30 km because of the curvature of the Earth.

Our Su-25 can inflict immense material and psychological damage to the enemy. On numerous photos and videos, we see our pilots practicing low level flights in solo or duo. That is not for show, it is the training they need to be effective against the enemy.

[gokorik]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

That is the exact type of plane and the exact type of flight method that is needed to destroy strategic (bridges, airfields, command centers.etc) and economic (oil fields, refineries etc.) targets while at the same avoid the Azeri S-300 PMU-2 missiles which have a range of up to 200km (depending on altitude). When flying at low level, the S-300 air defense battery's kill zones will be less than 30 km because of the curvature of the Earth.

Our Su-25 can inflict immense material and psychological damage to the enemy. On numerous photos and videos, we see our pilots practicing low level flights in solo or duo. That is not for show, it is the training they need to be effective against the enemy.

If they place their s-300 radars or their soon to be Green Pine radars on the highlands of their portion of the Greater Caucasus and their missile closer to the front wouldn't the radars have line of sight and therefore guide the missile and alert any nearby low altitude SAM's of the attacking aircraft. Even with a short exposure time, because of the low level flying, it would only take dozens of second for the missile to reach the area of the Armenian su-25's

I can see Armenian su-25's accomplishing tactical support but strategic bombing of any targets deep into Azerbaijan seems like a suicide mission to me.

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

To come in undetected against the pmu-2 is in my armature opinion not possible...

Further to my previous post:
-Radars waves travel horizontaly.
-The earths curvature limits the range of radar. That's why some countries have airborne radars like AWACS.
-The S-300 PMU-2 radars can detect airplanes at several hundred kilometers at high altitude.
-Against low flying aircraft, their range is limited.
-An Su-25 fying in a "nap of the earth" mission profile can come almost up to 20 km of an S-300.
-Flying low is difficult and needs lots of practice, it also limits the range of an aircraft becuse of the higher fuel burn rate.

[arakeretzig]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Further to my previous post:
-Radars waves travel horizontaly.
-The earths curvature limits the range of radar. That's why some countries have airborne radars like AWACS.
-The S-300 PMU-2 radars can detect airplanes at several hundred kilometers at high altitude.
-Against low flying aircraft, their range is limited.
-An Su-25 fying in a "nap of the earth" mission profile can come almost up to 20 km of an S-300.
-Flying low is difficult and needs lots of practice, it also limits the range of an aircraft becuse of the higher fuel burn rate.

interesting. so the only way to defeat a S300 is either fool it by stealth technology or take it out by overwhelming number of cruise/ballistic missiles.